HL Deb 11 February 1987 vol 484 cc643-5

2.48 p.m.

Lord Wallace of Coslany

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government to what extent Manpower Services Commission schemes include horticultural training and cultivation of produce on vacant local authority allotment plots.

The Secretary of State for Employment (Lord Young of Graffham)

My Lords, horticultural training opportunities are provided on both youth and adult training programmes. In 1985–86 some 11,000 YTS places were available in the standard industrial classification category covering horticulture and agriculture. I hope that many more people will have the opportunity to train in horticultural skills on the new job training scheme. Our training programmes are concerned with achieving vocational skills and qualifications and not with the use of particular training locations. Therefore we do not keep information on the use of vacant local authority allotment plots.

Lord Wallace of Coslany

My Lords, is the Minister aware that there is some doubt about the period of time allowed for this training? Is he further aware that while it is no substitute for a real job, there is the possibility of employment or of setting up small businesses, and in any case that when an individual has had an allotment plot he has subseqently gained an insight into a healthy recreation which may be to his family's advantage?

Lord Young of Graffham

My Lords, training is not a substitute for a real job. Very often, however, it is the pathway to a real job. One must appreciate that without the right supply of skills from individuals, the jobs will not come about. Under the new job training scheme qualifications there will, for example, be people taking the agricultural board's craftsman certificate in tractor driving, milking and stock handling. There will also be national proficiency test council awards in crop spraying, grading and packing fruit, and many of the skills which are necessary in those areas.

Lord Wallace of Coslany

My Lords, will the Minister endeavour to contact local authorities to make sure that some of them are making good use of vacant allotment plots to assist with this scheme?

Lord Young of Graffham

My Lords, I am concerned to ensure that both young people and adults have the right skills and therefore that we provide the right training. I suspect that the use of allotment plots does not fall within my department's area of responsibility, but I hear very clearly what the noble Lord says.

Baroness Seear

My Lords, can the Secretary of State tell us what proportion of the young people who are taking horticultural training relates to young women?

Lord Young of Graffham

Alas, my Lords, not without notice. I shall certainly look into the matter.

Lord Nugent of Guildford

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that the capacity to dig an allotment is limited to heroes and the noble Lord, Lord Wallace of Coslany, and that it would not be a fair test for a YTS youngster?

Lord Young of Graffham

My Lords, let me say at the outset that neither is it a fair test for a Minister of Her Majesty's Government.

Lord Mellish

My Lords, can the Minister tell us why local authority allotment plots are vacant?

Lord Young of Graffham

My Lords, that is surely a matter for the local authority and not for the Government.

Baroness Carnegy of Lour

My Lords, does my noble friend agree that growing vegetables on an allotment, whether or not it belongs to a local authority, can represent a very considerable supplementary income to a family because home-grown vegetables are worth a great deal of money? Is it not therefore very important that local authorities and others should make it possible for people to use their skills in that way?

Lord Young of Graffham

My Lords, I do not think that I should wander into the area of supplementary income for people in this country. I am quite sure that in themselves allotments are a very good thing.

Lord Somers

My Lords, does the Minister agree that in these enlightened days there is no such thing as manpower but that the designation should be "person power"?

Lord Williams of Elvel

My Lords, in the light of the question from the noble Baroness, Lady Carnegy, will the Minister reply to this question: does he feel that horticultural training is adequately covered in the schemes that he has in mind? Is there no further progress that needs to be made?

Lord Young of Graffham

My Lords, there are some 11,000 places under the YTS scheme in the standard industrial classification covering horticulture and agriculture, and that seems to me to be a very good contribution in that a two-year training period is provided under YTS. As I have already told your Lordships, I hope very much that under JTS (the training that we are offering in the main for those under 25 who have been out of work for more than six months) we shall have an opportunity of giving many more of our citizens training in both horticulture and agriculture, and indeed I hope in all employable skills.