Home Insulation Grants (Hansard, 11 February 1987)

§ Lord Dean of Beswick
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

§ Baroness Hooper
My Lords, home insulation grants have not been withdrawn; they are being targeted at those most in need. The proposed new scheme would withdraw the general rate of grant at 66 per cent. but would extend the availability of the more generous 90 per cent. grant.

§ Lord Dean of Beswick
My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Baroness for that reply. But does it not mean that many people who are now able to apply for the grant will be barred under the new ruling and that that will be a disincentive for them to have their houses insulated? At a time when our non-renewable energy resources are fast depleting, could not that have an adverse effect on our energy resources and further exacerbate a deteriorating situation?

§ Baroness Hooper
My Lords, we believe that by targeting the resources to those most in need we are making the best use of our energy resources. The more extended grant will be available not only to those elderly or disabled people who already receive a 90 per cent. grant but to all householders who are in receipt of housing benefit or supplementary benefit. By 646 definition, those must be the poorer people and the people most in need.

§ Baroness Gardner of Parkes
My Lords, will my noble friend tell me how many people she expects to benefit from the new proposals?

§ Baroness Hooper
My Lords, we believe that the proposal will increase the potential number of people who can benefit from the 90 per cent. grant by about 70 per cent. Precise figures are not available. We think that the number of eligible householders will increase from 4.5 milliion to about 7 million. More detailed information will be available when the 1986 English House Conditions Survey figures become available.

§ Baroness Stedman
My Lords, does the noble Baroness accept that if the Government did more about home insulation there would be much less need for energy conservation and for the building of nuclear power stations? If our homes were properly insulated less energy would be used and therefore we could do away with some of the proposed power stations.

§ Baroness Hooper
My Lords, the insulation arrangements which are being revised by the Government are intended to improve energy efficiency. The results of Energy Efficiency Year are still being considered but they already appear to prove that.

§ Baroness Nicol
My Lords, is it not a fact that this year's grant figure is to be less in real terms than it was last year? If that is so, how does it square with the dedication of the Secretary of State for Energy to the energy conservation programme, which he keeps reiterating?

§ Baroness Hooper
My Lords, we have increased by 15 per cent. gross provisions to local authorities in the housing capital grant programme for 1987–88. There are obviously realigned priorities within that programme. One of our first priorities cannot be to assist well-to-do householders to save their money. The provision in the scheme announced last December should be enough to meet the expected demand from people who genuinely need help.

§ Lord Dean of Beswick
My Lords, is the Minister aware that people in the building industry involved in insulation say that 80 per cent. of the people who were able to obtain a grant before the announcement was made will not be able to obtain it under the new arrangements? They are expecting a serious reduction in their own work load and further unemployment. Is that what the Government want?

§ Baroness Hooper
My Lords, during the eight years that the current scheme has been available we believe that most people able to take advantage of it have done so. Making grants available to new groups of people who could not otherwise afford insulation will expand the effective market.

The Earl of Halsbury
My Lords, has the noble Baroness any fall-back plan to deal with the fact that the more we insulate houses the more we expose ourselves to the danger of lung cancer from radon?

§ Baroness Hooper
My Lords, only in Devon and Cornwall, I believe.

§ Lord Glenamara
My Lords, may I ask the noble Baroness a question I asked one of her predeccessors a few years ago? Why is it still a rule that where a householder has insulated part of a house he is no longer eligible for a grant no matter what the need? Does not that penalise people who have helped themselves?

§ Baroness Hooper
My Lords, the existing scheme is designed to help people start from scratch or improve their existing insulation. There are also schemes which include draught-proofing. Future arrangements to help with the cost of draught-proofing materials are being considered by the government departments concerned, and they would be in addition to insulation.

§ Lord Glenamara
My Lords, the noble Baroness has, with respect, not answered my question. If a householder has insulated the area above the kitchen, or it has been insulated in the past, that house is no longer eligible for a grant, no matter what the need of the householder. Is that not grossly unfair?

§ Baroness Hooper
My Lords, it depends upon the extent of the existing insulation. As I said, the existing scheme covers householders from scratch and improving existing insulation. If the existing insulation is less than 30 mm (about one inch) thick, it can be improved up to 100 mm.

§ Lord Tordoff
My Lords, bearing in mind the sad fact of a by-election in Truro does the noble Baroness wish to reconsider her answer, "Only in Devon and Cornwall"?

§ Baroness Hooper
My Lords, I also said, "I believe".