§ Baroness Burton of CoventryMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.
The Question was as follows:
To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will make a statement on the meeting of the European Council of Transport Ministers held on 10th and 11th November and on decisions taken at that meeting.
§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Transport (Lord Brabazon of Tara)My Lords, the Transport Council last week concentrated primarily on the content of a first 3-year step towards liberalisation of air transport in the Community by the agreed target date of 1992.
A substantial majority of the Council now supports our Presidency proposals for a relaxation of rigid capacity sharing rules and for making it easier for airlines to enter the market. But six countries are blocking our efforts to allow cheaper fares. We plan to hold meetings with these countries before the next Council in December.
§ Baroness Burton of CoventryMy Lords, while realising that the Government wish to make progress and that the Minister himself wants to be helpful, may I ask: is the noble Lord aware that there has been a watering down of the original package which was proposed by Britain? Secondly, his reply mentioned capacity. Is the noble Lord, Lord Brabazon, aware that the capacity sharing on main routes proposed now by Britain is considerably more protectionist than that which was advanced by the Commission itself? Finally, may I ask the noble Lord this question: if the Government themselves are not prepared to take independent action, as they are fully entitled to do, will they at least press the Commission to act promptly on legal matters in the courts?
§ Lord Brabazon of TaraMy Lords, on the point of the noble Baroness about capacity, I appreciate that some people think we have watered down our proposals. However, I can give an assurance, as did my honourable friend the other day, that we will certainly not compromise any further to get an agreement. But I think that the proposal to go to 60–40 in three years' time, as a first step before full liberalisation in 1992, is not a bad one. If the Council fails to agree we shall have to re-examine the various alternative courses, and in particular to look to the Commission to uphold the treaty. We shall also need to consider what further action to take ourselves with a number of member states. Any of these options is likely to lead to the 338 European Court, where I am sure that we would eventually win the argument, but of course the process would be slow.
§ Baroness Burton of CoventryMy Lords, arising out of that reply, may I ask the Minister whether he is aware that I regard the 40–60 suggestion for the capacity sharing as being very weak indeed? Am I not correct in saying that what the Commission proposed was bringing it down to 25 per cent? Lastly, can the Minister tell us which are the countries who are opposing progress in Europe?
§ Lord Brabazon of TaraMy Lords, I note the views of the noble Baroness on capacity, but she will also appreciate that we have to do our best to get an agreement. As that agreement has not been reached, then of course the argument has been re-opened.
The six countries who oppose liberalisation on fares are France, Italy, Spain, Denmark, Greece and Portugal
§ Lord Graham of EdmontonMy Lords, will the Minister confirm that the intention of the discussions is to eliminate the overcharging of air fare consumers, which matter has reached scandalous and unacceptable levels? Can the Minister explain further the extent of what his ministerial colleague has described as compromise and as the bottom line having been reached? Will the noble Lord take note that consumer groups will be outraged if full and real liberalisation is sacrificed for some shoddy and shabby deal in pursuance of financial interests?
§ Lord Brabazon of TaraMy Lords, we certainly do not intend to compromise although we have been accused of compromising too far already. But that was the bottom line; we go no further than that. I can give the noble Lord an assurance on that. As the noble Lord said, our objective is to achieve full liberalisation and cheaper fares, which brings good business to the airlines themselves for all European consumers.
§ Lord UnderhillMy Lords, the Minister replied to the noble Baroness with the names of the six countries which were in disagreement. Can he summarise very briefly the reasons for their disagreement?
§ Lord Brabazon of TaraMy Lords, not easily, but in our opinion the opposing arguments are protectionist, ill-founded and anti-competitive.