HL Deb 05 March 1986 vol 472 cc174-6

2.44 p.m.

Lord Kennet

My Lords, I had given notice of my intention to ask, as the second Question standing in my name on the Order Paper, the following:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they consider that the refusal by the Government of the USA to discuss space-based ballistic missile defence at Geneva is consistent with the aim, declared jointly by the USA and the Soviet Union, of preventing an arms race in space.

May I point out to the House, however, that there is a mistake in the wording of the Question, which is my fault and for which I apologise. Instead of referring to, the refusal … of the USA to discuss space-based ballistic missile defence at Geneva", the Question should have spoken of, the refusal … of the USA to discuss restrictions on space-based ballistic missile defence".

Baroness Young

My Lords, the objective of the Geneva talks between the United States and the Soviet Union is to: work out effective agreements aimed at preventing an arms race in space and terminating it on earth, at limiting and reducing nuclear arms, and at strengthening strategic stability". The communique issued after the talks between Secretary Shultz and Mr. Gromyko in January 1985 made clear that the complex of questions concerning space and nuclear arms would be considered and resolved in their inter-relationship. President Reagan has now put forward further proposals to this end. They have our full support. We hope the Soviet Union will now allow rapid progress in the talks.

Lord Kennet

My Lords, what is the purpose of the talks? Is it, or is it not, to restrict space-based strategic missile defence? If it is not to restrict space-based strategic missile defence, what is the point of discussing it? If it is to restrict it, what are the American proposals to restrict it, given their well-known insistence on blinding ahead with star wars?

Baroness Young

My Lords, President Reagan has responded to the proposals that have been made by Mr. Gorbachev and there has been close consultation about this response which has our full support. It is a practical step-by-step approach and we hope that the Soviet Union will now match its words with deeds and allow rapid progress, not just of the bilateral, nuclear and space talks at Geneva, but also of the multilateral negotiations at Stockholm, Vienna and Geneva on conventional and chemical arms control.

Lord Gladwyn

My Lords, can the noble Baroness tell the House what is the exact position regarding the discussions, or otherwise, at Geneva of ASAT—that is to say, anti-satellite activities—and the possibility that each side might shoot down the other's satellites? That is a very important aspect. What is the position? Is it being discussed?

Baroness Young

My Lords, on the question of anti-satellite weapons, we have welcomed President Reagan's confirmation on 20th August 1985 that the United States is endeavouring, in good faith, to negotiate with the Soviet Union a mutual and verifiable agreement, with the strictest possible limitations on anti-satellite weapons consistent with the national security interest of the United States. We should recall that, unlike the Americans, the Russians possess a deployed ASAT system.

The Lord Bishop of Birmingham

My Lords, the noble Baroness tells us that the talks in Geneva have the full support of Her Majesty' Government. Can she also tell us whether Her Majesty's Government have any reservations at all about the money being spent on SDI in preventing a nuclear arms race in space?

Baroness Young

My Lords, the position of the Government on SDI is based on the four points which were set out following on the agreement between my right honourable friend the Prime Minister and President Reagan in December 1984. As the right reverend Prelate will know, we have agreed to take part in the research on SDI.

Lord Gladwyn

My Lords, do I understand from the noble Baroness that ASAT is now being discussed at Geneva?

Baroness Young

My Lords, I have quoted from the communication precisely what President Reagan said. The talks that are going on at Geneva cover a whole range of these space weapons.

Lord Jenkins of Putney

My Lords, does the noble Baroness appreciate that in following these exchanges it is very difficult to discover whether the Government agree or do not agree that there has been a refusal by the American Government to discuss space-based nuclear weapons? Could the noble Baroness at least clarify that point? Do the Government agree that the Americans have refused to discuss these matters in the sense that the Question poses?

Baroness Young

My Lords, the Russians have made much use in public of the statement that a condition of progress at Geneva is the abandonment by the United States of SDI. In practice this has not prevented the Russians from putting forward specific proposals, both in September 1985 and subsequently on 15th January this year. We believe that the immediate priority is the reduction by each side of offensive weapons, and we hope now that the Soviet Union will allow rapid progress to be made in the Geneva talks.

Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos

My Lords, may I refer to the Memorandum of Understanding which was signed recently? Can the noble Baroness say whether details of this memorandum are to be published by Her Majesty's Government? Can she also say how many contracts have resulted from this memorandum, and what are the value of the contracts?

Baroness Young

My Lords, without notice I could not give the noble Lord an answer to the second part of his question. If he would put down a Question on that point I should be happy to answer it. So far as concerns the number of contracts, two have been signed since the MoU, one with Heriot-Watt University and one with Ferranti.

Lord Kennet

My Lords, the Minister of State has mentioned the operational Soviet ASAT system. Will she confirm to the House that 20 years ago the United States had an operational ASAT system and that no doubt this had some influence in causing the Soviet Union to decide to have one, too?

Baroness Young

My Lords, I was stating a fact about the Soviet operational ASAT system which I think is relevant to the whole discussion of this matter.

Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos

My Lords, I am very grateful to the noble Baroness for the information she has given about contracts. Could she say a little more about the contracts with Herriot-Watt University and with Ferranti? What is the nature of the contracts and what employment will flow from them?

Baroness Young

My Lords, the contracts concern optical computing. Again, I am afraid I cannot give the noble Lord an answer on the precise number of jobs that would be involved.