HL Deb 05 March 1986 vol 472 cc172-3

2.40 p.m.

Lord Kennet

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they consider that the development of large-scale arms industries in debtor countries such as Brazil and Argentina, with the approval of the IMF, has any implications for world stability.

The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Young)

My Lords, we recognise the right of all countries to decide their own policy on arms production and procurement. Neither we nor the International Monetary Fund are in a position to dictate to a country its political priorities. At the same time, we welcomed the suggestion contained in the United Nations Study on Conventional Disarmament that negotiations be held between suppliers and recipient nations on the possible bases for agreements to restrain the transfer of arms, perhaps initially on a regional basis.

Lord Kennet

My Lords, will the Government do what they can to bridge the two parts of that Answer, to persuade the IMF to use its undoubted influence over the way in which recipient governments spend their moneys to that end? Is it not the case that of all the things that developing countries can do in order to try to reduce their debt by manufacturing and selling abroad, the manufacture of arms is the only one that is intrinsically destabilising and that destroys rather than creates wealth?

Baroness Young

My Lords, one has to be clear about the functions of the International Monetary Fund, which provides short-term balance of payments support. It does not specify particular uses of loans. Indeed, the conditions that are attached to loans are aimed at restoring the position of borrowers' balances of payments and their long-term economic growth.

Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos

My Lords, will the noble Baroness explain to the House what precisely is the policy of Her Majesty's Government on this issue? Do the Government approve of the sale of arms to countries whose economic affairs are in a complete shambles? Is a country's economic situation taken into account before the Government approve the sale of armaments to that country? Secondly, will the Minister say what system exists to monitor the sales of arms to other countries?

Baroness Young

My Lords, the position of the Government on the question of arms sales is that we consider each circumstance on a case-by-case basis wherever it may be; but we do not agree to the sale of any equipment which in our judgment is likely to be used for internal repression or in order to violate human rights.

Lord Williams of Elvel

My Lords, can the noble Baroness tell us how Brazil and Argentina, in those two cases, are going to pay for the arms, given their present financial situation?

Baroness Young

My Lords, I think this is a supplementary which is quite wide of the Question, which is really concerned with the development of the armaments industries within the countries themselves. But perhaps I may add for the noble Lord that Article 51 of the United Nations Charter stresses that independent states have the inherent right of individual or collective self-defence.

Lord Barnett

My Lords, surely even the Foreign Office must have some concern for the second half of the Question; namely, world stability? Does not even the Foreign Office have some discussion with the Treasury about the dangers to world stability, the effect on the banking systems of countries like these in the developing world and the effect on the banks in the Western world? Therefore, can the noble Baroness answer the second half of the Question about the Government's policy in relation to the implications to world stability?

Baroness Young

My Lords, as I have already indicated, all aspects of a debtor's economic performance are considered in debt negotiations. Of course, I recognise that the second half of the original Question is concerned with the very wide issue of world stability. Naturally the Government are concerned about peace in the world, which is a very large question; but as I have already indicated, it is an inherent right of any country to develop armaments for their own defence and security.