NATO and Warsaw Pact Countries: Discussions (Hansard, 30 January 1986)

§ Lord Molloy
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

§ The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Young)
My Lords, discussions between NATO and the Warsaw Pact as such have not taken place in the past, and none is envisaged. The search for a constructive dialogue between individual Western allies and the Soviet Union and the countries of Eastern Europe is, however, an integral part of the efforts of NATO to bring about an improved East/West relationship.

§ Lord Molloy
My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness for that reply. I think that even she will agree that it is a pretty awful and sterile Answer: that we cannot even get some idea of unity among NATO to talk with the Warsaw Pact people. Is she not aware of the fact and can she give verification of it, that it was Mr. Gorbachev who advocated verification on site between Russia and America, and that Senator Thomas O'Neill's visit and that of the congressmen to the USSR also supported some idea of ongoing talks between NATO and the Warsaw Pact countries? Will she, as many American senators have done, support Senator Thomas O'Neill; and can she say whether the British Government do so, as well?

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Molloy, asked about five questions within that supplementary question. To establish a basis of fact for answering them, it might be better if I welcomed the interest that Mr. Gorbachev expressed in Paris in October 1985 in finding "a common language on international problems". His suggestion of contacts between the Warsaw Pact and NATO was, however, couched in vague and hypothetical terms and not something which has either been pursued by the Russians or seriously considered by NATO. It is 789 difficult to see in present circumstances what purpose it would serve.

§ Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos
My Lords, Mr. Gorbachev made certain proposals just before the Geneva Summit and, since then, the moratorium on testing has been extended by a further three months. Will the noble Baroness say whether these matters are on the agenda for the US- European talks; and can she say whether those proposals could possibly be of assistance towards establishing a comprehensive test-ban treaty?

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, I can best answer that supplementary question by saying that we are in close touch with our American allies over a wide number of issues, and we talk to them very regularly. The particular point that the noble Lord raises about a comprehensive test-ban treaty is, I think, outside the terms of the Question. But if he is good enough to put down a Question on that subject I shall of course be happy to answer it.

§ Lord Jenkins of Putney
My Lords, is the noble Baroness aware that I have down a Question on that subject and that I shall not expect her to answer it now? In reply to what my noble friend on the Front Bench has said, will she be a little more specific about what precisely is intended to be happening in Geneva in the resumed talks which, I believe, are taking place just now?

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, once again, if the noble Lord were to put down a Question on that particular point I should be happy to try to answer it.

§ Lord Molloy
My Lords, may I ask the noble Baroness very briefly to appreciate that, in so far as it is now visible for all to see, under Mr. Gorbachev's leadership there seems to be a much more realistic appreciation of valuable talks between the United States of America, our foremost ally, and the Soviet Union? Does she not agree that perhaps NATO could make some mighty effort, and have representatives as well joining in, to try to secure that the 21st century should become the first century of life without fear of universal death?

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, as the noble Lord will know, we and our American allies and our partners in NATO want to see a genuine reduction in armaments; but they must be both balanced and verifiable. As far as the outcome of the Geneva Summit is concerned, we believe that it was a success and that it had a number of specific results. It contributed a measure of confidence and greater understanding between two world leaders. President Reagan received the full support of the alliance and will continue to do so in the run-up to the next summit, which will be held in the United States.

§ Lord Boston of Faversham
My Lords, will the noble Minister accept that the supplementary question posed by my noble friend Lord Cledwyn about a comprehensive test-ban treaty was, in fact, well within the terms of the Question on the Order Paper; because one of the subjects which it was envisaged that it might 790 be possible to carry forward following the Geneva talks was this particular matter? Can she say to what extent it is now proposed to try to carry those matters further forward; that is to say, to seek to obtain a corn prehensive test-ban treaty?

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, I should much regret if it were reported that I was in any way discourteous either to the noble Lord, Lord Cledwyn, or to the noble Lord, Lord Boston. But it is a very wide Question on the Order Paper and these are very serious and complex subjects. I answered a question on the comprehensive test-ban treaty, giving the Government's views on that matter. I feel that I should not be prepared to go further than what I said in answer to that question today.