British Theatre Association: Funding (Hansard, 12 February 1986)

§ Lord Ritchie of Dundee
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

§ The Minister of State, Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (Lord Belstead)
My Lords, it is for the Arts Council and not for my right honourable friend the Minister for the Arts to consider whether or not to continue to fund the British Theatre Association. The future of the association itself is not, I understand, in doubt. It is the association's library that is in difficulties. My right honourable friend has suggested to the BTA ways in which the collection might be preserved, and discussions continue. My right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Education and Science has agreed to provide funds for the library for a three-year period from April 1985 while the association seeks alternative funding.

§ Lord Ritchie of Dundee
My Lords, I thank the noble Lord the Minister for his fairly predictable reply. But may I point out that the library of the British Theatre Association is unique not only in this country but also in the world and that its research facilities are used by professional and amateur theatre companies, producers and actors from all over the world? Would he not agree that this collection must not be allowed to lapse or to be dispersed?

§ Lord Belstead
My Lords, I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Ritchie, that the collection is very valuable, as is the service that the BTA provides. There are, of course, a number of larger libraries that could take over the BTA collection and administer it at less cost. This is one of the suggestions that has been made by my right honourable friend.

§ Lord Harmar-Nicholls
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that his reply does not really fit in with the truth of what is likely to follow if this £16,000 a year grant is withdrawn by the Arts Council? Is my noble friend aware that the theatre is one of our biggest industries both as regards employment and exports, that this library is the seed from which most of the theatre productions flow and that to allow it to be damaged or disbanded would be a real tragedy in the long term? Will he nudge the Arts Council to continue the very modest £16,000 a year to avoid this happening to an outstandingly important industry?

§ Lord Belstead
My Lords, this flows, of course, from a general decision applying to all specialist bodies that service the arts, the Arts Council having decided to concentrate on helping the performing companies. I shall certainly draw the attention of my right honourable friend to what has been said.

§ Baroness Birk
My Lords, is the noble Lord the Minister aware that I have some sympathy for him in answering this rather difficult question, as I feel that he is rather more "aggy" than arty? Nevertheless, what he has said about the Arts Council must be pressed further. Is he aware that the Arts Council has cut its £16,000 funding for the reasons that he has mentioned and that £9,000 which the BTA was getting from the GLC stops after abolition? Can he give any indication of whether the BTA will not be receiving some of the £25 million which the Arts Council was given as replacement money following abolition? Will he not agree that the £13,500 which we are delighted to hear that the DES will continue to give the BTA is really quite inadequate and that the Office of Arts and Libraries is surely the body to make a grant to this association, the value of which has already been mentioned by other noble Lords?

§ Lord Belstead
My Lords, no decision has yet been taken as to whether the Arts Council will make good the removal of the GLC funding. As to whether the Arts Council should draw on the large sum of £25 million post-abolition funding, that is a matter for the Arts Council. To get the record straight, the Department of Education and Science funding for this year is going to be at a level of about £10,000.

The Earl of Bessborough
My Lords, while declaring an interest as president of this association, may I thank other noble Lords for taking an interest in this matter and also my noble friend for giving us some crumbs of comfort? I am always thankful for small mercies. However, I should like to ask my noble friend whether he would remind his right honourable friends the Secretary of State for Education and Science and the Minister for the Arts of the importance of this matter, and to ask that they will watch the situation so that there is no chance of this association having to sell its very important assets.

§ Lord Belstead
My Lords, I understand my noble friend's interest in this matter. I shall certainly respond to my noble friend by saying that I will draw the attention of my right honourable friends to this Question in your Lordships' House today.
As I have already said, my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Education and Science is continuing to grant aid the British Theatre Association for a further three-year period. My right honourable friend the Minister for the Arts has suggested bodies which might be approached in order to preserve the collection.

Lord Paget of Northampton
My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that if handouts are in order at the moment, British culture generally is far more represented by the association of field sports? Would he assure us that they will be treated at least on equal terms with these esoteric activities?

§ Lord Belstead
My Lords, I think we come to that tomorrow on the Salmon Bill.

§ Lord Donaldson of Kingsbridge
My Lords, does the noble Lord agree that it is rather sad that last week we should have Sadler's Wells, and this week we should have the best dramatic library in the country, under threat? Does the noble Lord remember that we were promised by the Minister for the Arts that the various contributions to the arts from the GLC would not suffer as a result of the abolition? This is most disillusioning and I hope that the noble Lord will be able to do more than he has said to preserve the present situation.

§ Lord Belstead
My Lords, the noble Lord is always fair and I think perhaps he has not picked up the Written Answer to a Question in another place which showed that the horizon is a good deal brighter so far as Sadler's Wells is concerned. My right honourable friend the Minister for the Arts, answering a Question on Monday of this week, said that the Arts Council have announced today—that was that day—that they will be holding a meeting on Friday with Sadler's Wells and the three companies that regularly use the theatre, the purpose being to discuss the possibility that the companies should be given additional funds to enable them to pay economic levels of rent, and that in that way the Arts Council would make a substantial contribution to keeping that theatre open. My right honourable friend said that he applauded that initiative.
So far as GLC post-abolition funding is concerned, I would simply make the point that the amount of money which the Government have made available to the Arts Councils is quite considerable. When one looks at the huge budgets which the local authorities themselves have, and the fact that no longer will they be required to pay precepts so far as arts matters are concerned, I should have thought that we could have looked for a little contribution to come in the post-abolition areas from the local authorities.

§ Lord McNair
My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that in addition to the library proper the BTA houses personal archives which have been bequeathed to it by people whose names read like a roll of honour of 193 twentieth century British theatre?—such names as William Archer, Granville-Barker, the great Miss Horniman from the Gaiety Theatre, Manchester, Nugent Monck's prompt copies from the Maddermarket Theatre, Norwich. If London is to retain its claim to be the theatrical capital of the world with all the ensuing benefits to our balance of payments, is it not vital that these precious collections should be kept in this country?

§ Lord Belstead
My Lords, there is no difference between the Government and any noble Lord in this House about the value of the collection. But the one thing I have not said so far on behalf of the Government is that the problem over the BTA library was there before the Arts Council took their decision. The library is expanding because it is indeed successful. It is in an expensive part of London and there is no scope on the site, as I understand it, to enlarge the library. There was therefore—before the Arts Council said anything at all—clearly a funding problem. I have given an undertaking to the House today that I will draw the attention of my right honourable friends to these exchanges in your Lordships' House. I do not think that I can go very much further than that.

§ Baroness Birk
My Lords, I am sorry to have to come back, but the Minister mentioned the question of contributions from local authorities. I must put this to him. Is it not true that the association is a national one and that it is extremely difficult to ask or expect local authorities—with all the other demands on them—to contribute to that? Is the noble Lord also aware that the British Theatre Association has written to the Richmond scheme for that very purpose but has, not surprisingly, received no response? In these circumstances, will the noble Lord agree that this must be treated as a national matter, and, bearing in mind that the acting profession has about the highest unemployment of almost any other profession, that the chances of getting more contributions and even sponsorship are very low compared with other activities?

§ Lord Belstead
My Lords, I should like to repeat this point from this side. I know that my right honourable friend has been in touch with the British Theatre Association to try to help to identify other forms of funding. I know that my right honourable friend will continue to try to do that. In doing that, I should have thought that it would be possible and desirable to look everywhere for money, and that would include also local authority funding.