Tin Mining Industry, Cornwall (Hansard, 29 April 1986)

Lord Bruce of Donington
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the second Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

§ Lord Lucas of Chilworth
My Lords, the Government have made clear that they are willing to consider applications for assistance towards the cost of projects which will make the mines competitive in a free market for tin.

Lord Bruce of Donington
My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that the industry itself will gain but little comfort from his statement which restricts any aid that may be required to the operation of the appropriate Industry Acts? Is he also aware that what is required in this instance is a substantial injection of funds in order to maintain the employment of over 4,000 people in this industry which is vital to Cornwall and so as to save the Government approximately £25 million a year in expenditure on relief which would otherwise be paid to those people?
Will the noble Lord try treating the tin industry in Cornwall with a modest degree of generosity comparable to the Government's colossal subsidy to agriculture and the expenditure of over £100 million on a minor city bank which happened to get into trouble?

§ Lord Lucas of Chilworth
My Lords, I am sorry the noble Lord thinks that my original Answer will bring small comfort to the tin mining industry in Cornwall. I repeat—because I should not like anybody to misunderstand—that we are willing to consider any application for assistance which will make the mines competitive in a free market for tin. I do not want to bandy numbers with the noble Lord opposite, but the figure of 4,000 people to which he refers is quite different from what the industry has indicated to my department. It is more likely to be 1,200 miners plus 300 people in peripheral activities and some hundreds in associated areas. That is a long way short of the figure given by the noble Lord.
The tin industry will be accorded all the assistance that we can give, commensurate with its further operations being viable. It is certainly not Her Majesty's Government's policy to provide operating subsidies. Even if that were so, it is unlikely that the 137 necessary European Commission approval would be forthcoming.

§ Lord Molloy
My Lords, what the noble Lord has just said is well understood in Cornwall by both management and the skilled craftsmen. I shall ask my question now, as the Minister earlier suggested. The workers in the industry are aware that while we adhere to our own statutory instrument with regard to the International Tin Council other people do not, and to them all the promises by the Government to help seem ludicrous if other nations do not play the game. They are also aware that they are now living in an era in which we have the fastest growing unemployment ever in our industry. This point, too, plays an important role and is one of the matters which the Minister ought to consider.

§ Lord Lucas of Chilworth
My Lords, I think that the question of the noble Lord, Lord Molloy, boils down simply to this: what shall we do when we find that an international agreement is not supported by other countries which are signatories to it? This is a matter to which we shall have to give most careful consideration in the light of events and then take what steps we feel are necessary with regard to international commodity agreements.
With reference to the point about labour let no noble Lord be under any misapprehension that we are as concerned about the growing numbers of unemployed people across the industrialised world and in Europe as we are about those in our own country. The Government's financial and other policies are aimed at, and are succeeding in holding, that position and at making some small dents in it.

§ Lord Mackie of Benshie
My Lords, does the reply by the Minister mean that he rejects all international commodity agreements which are aimed at protecting large numbers of primary producers against excessive movements in the market? Is it not a fact that the International Tin Agreement failed because the market was not followed and the prices were kept too high? That depressed prices far below what they would have been if the agreement had been managed in a manner appropriate to the market.

§ Lord Lucas of Chilworth
My Lords, at this stage all I would be prepared to say in answer is that this is a very complex matter. A number of issues are involved. One which the noble Lord mentions is important, but it is by no means unique in terms of the collapse of the Tin Council's operations.

§ Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos
My Lords, will not the noble Lord agree that if the applications to which he has referred are not granted and the tin mines in this area of Cornwall are closed, that would be a major tragedy for the economy of Cornwall and for the people who would be made redundant as a result of the closures? If that were to be the case, the effect on the economy of Cornwall would be serious. In those circumstances what further steps would the Government take to find work for these people who live in Cornwall, who are Cornish, and who should not move away if they do not wish? What steps will the Government take to rebuild the economy following such a disaster?

§ Lord Lucas of Chilworth
My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Cledwyn, asks a hypothetical question.

Noble Lords
No.

§ Lord Lucas of Chilworth
My Lords, since we have not yet received claims for assistance—though we understand some are on the way—it would be wrong for me to suggest the outcome of those applications. When the claims have been dealt with might be the right time for the noble Lord opposite to raise his question.
In broader terms the Government have a number of schemes available for assisted areas to help with the relocation of other businesses and the retraining of people. Those schemes will be brought into play if necessary.

§ Lord Campbell of Alloway
My Lords, would my noble friend the Minister agree that this is a grave situation and an emergency? If he so agrees, could consideration be given to seeking some specific derogation under the Rome Treaty to keep the industry and its workforce viable?

§ Lord Lucas of Chilworth
My Lords, of course I agree with my noble friend Lord Campbell of Alloway that this is a very grave situation. It arose in October of last year and came to a head in March of this year. Other industries have faced what my noble friend describes as emergency circumstances. The Government will do what they can to resolve those circumstances with the tools which are at their disposal. I do not think that there can be any question this afternoon of seeking derogation of our international responsibilities in a matter of this nature.

§ Lord Williams of Elvel
My Lords, would the noble Lord accept that his analogy with other industries is quite false and that for over 20 years the tin agreement has been designed to keep the prices in the market different from those which would prevail in the free market? Does he agree that the collapse of the tin agreement—in October, as he rightly said—created a completely new situation which had not been faced by other industries? In the light of that would he not agree that there is a case for some transitional arrangements to allow the Cornish tin industry to adjust to a totally new market situation which has developed only in the last few months?

§ Lord Lucas of Chilworth
My Lords, in general terms I would agree with what the noble Lord says. I would refer him to my original Answer, which was that the Government have made it quite clear that they are willing to consider applications for assistance towards the cost of projects which will make the mines competitive in a free market for tin. I do not think that I can say any more than that.