Cancer Screening: Westminster Palace Staff (Hansard, 15 April 1986)

§ Baroness Ewart-Biggs
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

§ The Chairman of Committees (Lord Aberdare)
My Lords, there are no cancer screening facilities at the Palace of Westminster because current medical advice is that these matters are best dealt with through the person's own general medical practitioner. For those to whom this presents a difficulty, there are already extensive facilities within this area.

§ Baroness Ewart-Biggs
My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that, as chairman of the Women's National Cancer Control Campaign, I am a little dismayed at his Answer, in view of the fact that the WNCCC has for 21 years carried out successful screening programmes throughout the country but was not invited to give its views when the question was decided as to whether or not screening should take place in the Palace of Westminster? Therefore, does the noble Lord agree that not only would a screening programme within the Palace of Westminster be useful to the 1,400 women who work here but it would also be an example and an incentive for other women to present themselves for screening? In the light of that and the fact that still 2,000 women die each year from the only form of cancer that can be cured if detected in time, will the noble Lord's Services Committee reconsider its decision and engage in consultation with the WNCCC on this question?

§ Lord Aberdare
My Lords, as I am sure the noble Baroness is aware, the Services Committee in another place considered this matter with great care and took evidence from trade unions, medical advice, and evidence from the Civil Service. It finally came to the conclusion that it was far more important that people who should have these vital screenings should go to their own general practitioner because then the proper follow-up could take place and they could be advised about further treatment. If there are those who are not able to go to their own practitioner, then, as I said in my original Answer, there are plenty of places near here where the screening can be carried out.

§ Baroness Gardner of Parkes
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that most of the women who need this service more than others are those who are most reluctant to go for screening? Is he also aware that very effective mobile clinics visit sites where a large number of women work and that it would be a simple exercise to have such a mobile clinic for a brief time? That would give an opportunity to people here and thus capture, treat or at least screen a number of women who would not go to their general practitioners or take the trouble to go elsewhere for these essential tests.

§ Lord Aberdare
My Lords, I appreciate what my noble friend has said. However, when the Services Committee considered the matter in another place it recommended that the importance of screening should be drawn to the attention of all the staff in another place—and I hope that we shall do the same here—and also that there would be no obstacle to their taking time off if necessary in order to attend these clinics. As I have said, the medical advice was very strongly in favour of going either to the general practitioner or to a clinic where the proper follow-up facilities are available.

§ Lord Ennals
My Lords, bearing in mind that the proposals were supported by the trade unions, rather contrary to what was implied by the noble Lord; bearing in mind that, as has been said, cervical cancer is the only form of cancer which can be detected and therefore treated; bearing in mind also, as the noble Baroness has said, that the proposal is basically for there to be a small unit available from time to time, I ask the noble Lord whether it would not be absolutely right that this Palace, the House of Commons and the House of Lords, should give a lead to the nation on one of the most disturbing health issues of today? I should also like to know how many women were on the Select Committee which took the decision.

§ Lord Aberdare
My Lords, I must categorically deny that I implied that the trade unions were involved. The trade unions put the case very adequately to the Services Committee of another place. It was very carefully considered, but the overriding consideration was the medical one. The medical advice is that it is much better for women to go to their own practitioner because sometimes a smear shows some signs of not being normal and if the screening is carried out by only a temporary mobile screening unit there is no way of following it up. It is far better that they should go to their own practitioner, if not to a clinic. I am sure that that was in the mind of the Services Committee. I 539 would recommend that the noble Lord read the report of the Select Committee of another place. I cannot speak for that committee. All I can say is that that report will of course be considered by our own administration committee in due course.

§ Lord Ennals
My Lords, I should like to follow up the matter. Will the committee consider the matter again, bearing in mind the great reluctance that has been shown by hardworking people to see their GPs, and that if there was a screening service here, they would then follow that up by seeing their GPs? Is not this really a matter that ought to be reconsidered with additional evidence given? Will the noble Lord answer my question as to how many women were on the Services Committee which produced the report?

§ Lord Aberdare
My Lords, I cannot answer that question, I am afraid. I do not know how many people were on the committee of another place; nor can I commit another place to reconsider the matter.

The Earl of Halsbury
My Lords, can the noble Lord be more specific about what I think he has described as local facilities? Do they exist at the Westminster Hospital round the corner or at St. Thomas's on the other side of the bridge?

§ Lord Aberdare
My Lords, a list of local facilities is available from our admirable nursing sister. They do not, so far as I can see, exist at the hospitals, but there are a number of clinics all within very easy reach of this House, and I shall be pleased to show the noble Earl a list of these rather than read them out now.

§ The Countess of Mar
My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that the majority of women who die from cancer are in the 40 to 60 age group, and that many of them are hard-working mothers with children and do not have time to go to see their GPs? But if a mobile clinic was to come to their place of work, they would overcome any reluctance to see their GPs because they would go with the gang, they would be given time off to go; it would take only a few minutes and it would encourage a great many women to go who now die unnecessarily.

§ Lord Aberdare
My Lords, I appreciate that. It was a point made to the Services Committee, but again it felt that those women who could not find the time to go to see their own general practitioner would be better advised to go to a local clinic near the Palace of Westminster. The committee also emphasised that women should be given time off to do that. That is what I am sure we would wish equally to do in this House.

§ Baroness Ewart-Biggs
My Lords, in view of the fact that the members of the Medical Advisory Committee of the WNCCC, who are the great experts on the subject, were not consulted by the Select Committee, would the noble Lord perhaps suggest to the Select Committee that it consults with WNCCC? After all, they are the experts on the mobile unit screening programme, which has a good record. They should give their view, and it should be considered again.

§ Lord Aberdare
My Lords, I am sure that the Services Committee of another place will take note of what the noble Baroness has said. I shall send the committee a copy of what has been said this afternoon, and I can only leave this matter to it.

§ Lord Glenamara
My Lords, the noble Lord continues to refer to the Services Committee of the other place. Have we not a Services Committee here and could the matter not be referred to it?

§ Lord Aberdare
My Lords, it will be considered by the Administration Committee here. No doubt it will wish to follow the lines set by the Services Committee by encouraging our staff to have cervical screening and will make it quite clear that if necessary they will be given the time off to do so.

§ Lord Diamond
My Lords, does the noble Lord Chairman see any argument against offering the further facility, in case it is of use and benefit, of a mobile unit on condition that that unit reports to the GP in question afterwards?

§ Lord Aberdare
My Lords, again that was a point that was considered in the inquiry by the Services Committee and it thought that it would lead to confusion. There was no clear evidence that that sort of reporting to the general practitioner would in fact take place.

§ The Countess of Mar
My Lords, I am sorry to press the noble Lord, but is it not the case that 30 years ago tuberculosis was fairly rife in this country, that mobile clinics were used to X-ray people for tuberculosis, and that in some cases the marks which came up on the X-rays were not tuberculosis? Yet at the same time the patient was referred to his GP, and TB is now a very rare illness in this country.

§ Lord Aberdare
My Lords, that may well be so, but what the noble Countess suggests may not necessarily be the case in this particular instance.