HL Deb 18 March 1985 vol 461 cc326-7

2.58 p.m.

Lord Mottistone

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government when they hope to issue civil defence guidelines on detection, warning and protective measures against chemical attack.

The Minister of State, Home Office (Lord Elton)

My Lords, in the absence of a ban on chemical weapons, we are considering the questions of detection and warning of chemical attacks and protective measures against them. It is too early to say when this will be completed, but I shall of course keep your Lordships informed of progress.

Lord Mottistone

My Lords, in view of the fact that the Soviets have over a quarter of a million tonnes of chemical munitions, is it not a matter of importance that we should have the report to which my noble friend I think referred, accelerated? Therefore guidance can be given to local authorities combining protection for the public against chemical attack in the general consideration of their civil defence activities which they are now taking on.

Lord Elton

My Lords, it is important that we should have the report. However it is also important that the report should be right and that the guidance should be accurate and capable of being implemented. In view of the extent of the work needed and the variety of sources to be consulted, I am not able to give a date for the report.

Lord Jenkins of Putney

My Lords, does the noble Lord agree that in regard to chemical weapons—indeed, the same may apply to some other weapons as well—it is somewhat difficult to know whether the research and development that is being carried out is being carried out for defensive or offensive purposes?

In the event of the Government unhappily deciding to proceed any further in this matter, will they draw a sharp distinction between defensive preparations and any suggestion of offensive preparations?

Lord Elton

My Lords, there is no question of our using defensive research for offensive purposes.

Lord Mayhew

My Lords, does the noble Lord agree that the likelihood of chemical attack is somewhat greater than the likelihood of nuclear attack? Are the Government not giving too much priority to defence against nuclear attack as compared with defence against chemical attack?

Lord Elton

My Lords, without wishing to claim expertise in the matter, I think I am right in saying that the chemical weapon is generally more likely to be used in battlefield conditions. Of course, if there was a battlefield in the United Kingdom then the civilian population would in any case be exposed.

Lord Renton

My Lords, have not even the peacetime disasters shown that the most terrible damage can be done on a wide scale by chemical attacks, explosions and so on? Can my noble friend say whether the NATO defence committee, of which we are members, is taking any steps in this matter by way of research and advice and protection?

Lord Elton

My Lords, the Civil Defence Committee of NATO is developing guidelines on a wide range of civil defence matters, among them methods for the protection of the civil population against the effects of modern weapons.

Lord Mottistone

My Lords, is my noble friend able to tell us whether the recommendations from NATO will be part of what is put together as recommendations to local authorities by his department?

Lord Elton

My Lords, I am not certain what the process of assembly will be, but I can assure my noble friend that what is recommended will be congruent with that advice.

The Earl of Onslow

My Lords, I should like to ask whether any element of chemical warfare was built into the recent exercises which were carried out concerning defence against notional nuclear attacks. Surely it would not be wise to assume that chemical warfare would not be used and that only nuclear warfare would be used. Should we not amalgamate the amount of civil defence that is required to apply to both categories of warfare?

Lord Elton

My Lords, I am not familiar with the entire programme of the recent exercises, but I can assure my noble friend that we are not unaware of the extent of the threat of chemical weaponry, of which, as my noble friend Lord Mottistone has reminded us, the Soviet Union retains a considerable quantity, and also the capability of delivery.