Strategic Defence Initiative (Hansard, 20 June 1985)

§ Lord Molloy
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the second Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

§ Baroness Young
No, my Lords. The strategic defence initiative is a United States research programme permitted under existing treaties. Any strategic defence initiative-related deployment would have to be a matter for negotiation. We strongly support the agreed aim of the United States-Soviet talks in Geneva to prevent an arms race in space and to end it on earth.

§ Lord Molloy
My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Baroness for that reply. Can the noble Baroness say what progress has been made as a result of the December meeting, when the Prime Minister set her hand dead against any superiority in star wars and thought that there should be encouragement for much wider discussion on what might happen? There was also put forward the proposition that even the Soviet Union should participate in the research, in the hope 365 that this might result in a massive contribution to the abolition of nuclear weapons and the return of sanity to the world. Can the noble Baroness tell the House whether or not the Prime Minister's remarks last December are now being pursued by the British Foreign Office?

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, I can assure the noble Lord, Lord Molloy, and the House that the British view towards the strategic defence initiative is based on the four points that were agreed between President Reagan and my right honourable friend the Prime Minister at their meeting last December. That remains our position. On the noble Lord's supplementary question about the Soviet Government, I think that we must recognise that Soviet research on ballistic missile defence has been continuing since the 1960s. The ABM defences around Moscow are the only type in existence in the world. They have extensive programmes on ballistic missile defence-related technologies, including high-powered lasers, electric pulse beams and heavy-lift capability. All this research is currently taking place in the Soviet Union and, therefore, it is not surprising that research should be going on in the United States.

§ Lord Gladwyn
My Lords, will not the Government recognise that, as the European members of the North Atlantic Alliance are obviously all very much in the same boat as regards the possible effects of SDI, they should seek to formulate a common attitude towards this unfortunate project which might perhaps best be formulated by the President in office of the Council of the European Community?

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, as I am sure the noble Lord, Lord Gladwyn, is aware, the French have put forward a proposal for a European research coordination agency, known as EUREKA. We have responded positively to this suggestion, proposing the formation at the forthcoming Milan Council of a high level group of interested countries. This is of course a separate issue from the immediate one of the strategic defence initiative, as the French have made clear, because it is for each country to determine what its attitude to the research will be. As my right honourable friend the Prime Minister has indicated, we intend to take part in the research programmes.

§ Lord Harmar-Nicholls
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that most people will support the sober and realistic attitude that she is adopting on behalf of the Government? I think that the same people will deplore the blatant anti-American attitude which is contained in Questions being tabled these days from the Labour Benches. The American are our main allies, as we are theirs, and this undermining of mutual confidence can do nothing but harm for the future peace of the world.

§ Baroness Young
Yes, my Lords, I agree with much of what my noble friend has said. I believe it is important for us all to recognise that an arms race in space would benefit no one, and we are glad that the Geneva talks are focusing on the prevention of an arms race. We believe that negotiation and mutual restraint are both needed to meet the urgent challenge posed by costly new space technologies.

§ Lord Beloff
My Lords, in relation to the question asked by the noble Lord, Lord Gladwyn, will my, noble friend the Minister agree that the Council of Ministers would be an inappropriate body to discuss this matter as defence is expressly excluded from the Treaty of Rome, but that European interests are continuously being taken into account by the Government of the United States, as witness the tour of Europe which I believe the American Vice-President begins today?

§ Baroness Young
Yes, my Lords, that is perfectly true; and of course European countries discuss all these matters in the appropriate forum, such as NATO.

§ Lord Gladwyn
My Lords, will not the Government at least admit that those in this country who oppose SDI are certainly not anti-American in any way, that they merely share the views of what is probably half the American people and certainly the views of a large number of the members of the American Congress?

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, whatever the view of the population of America may be on SDI, we are of course considering the policy of the United States Government.

§ Lord Molloy
My Lords, is the noble Baroness aware that these Questions are in no way designed to be anti-American? If one wanted to be anti-American one could say that it is a good thing the Americans are surreptitiously invading Nicaragua or wish to have an overwhelming command of nuclear weapons ready to wipe out the Soviet Union. However, many Americans do not believe that that is their policy and many Americans agree with me.

Noble Lords
Question!

§ Lord Molloy
My Lords, is the noble Baroness not aware that when I went to America (where I am noted to be anti-American) to become an honorary American of the United States, they took a totally different view from the noble Lord, Lord Harmar-Nicholls? When the noble Lord has been made an honorary American of the United States, he can come and talk to me! As the late Lord Attlee said: We should now expect a reasonable period of silence from him".

Noble Lords
Question!

§ Lord Molloy
My Lords, is the noble Baroness aware that in reality the situation is that top scientists anticipate that SDI tests will take place in 1990? Our Prime Minister has said that there must now be efforts to involve all allies on both sides—Warsaw and NATO—which seems to be sensible. Will she not agree that the Foreign Office ought to adopt that attitude in its consultations with the Government of the United States of America?

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, I am not absolutely clear about all the questions which were included in the remarks of the noble Lord, Lord Molloy, but perhaps I might deal with two points. The noble Lord several times referred to the suggestion that the Americans are trying to achieve superiority. That is 367 not the case. President Reagan and the Prime Minister are in full agreement that the United States and Western aim is not to achieve superiority but to maintain a balance, taking account of Soviet developments. This is one of the four points agreed at the meeting between my right honourable friend the Prime Minister and President Reagan in December.
Furthermore, in March 1983 President Reagan acknowledged the formidable technical task relating to the strategic defence initiative and said that decades of effort would be needed. The present research is designed to establish the limits of what is possible. There are obvious technical problems, especially in view of likely counter-measures, and there are of course immense cost factors to be weighed, so that there are no easy answers. That is why we attach such importance to progress at Geneva.

§ Lord Renton
My Lords, as the noble Lord, Lord Molloy, has told us that he is an honorary American, could my noble friend encourage him to act up to that great status by reminding the noble Lord, Lord Molloy, of the debt which we and all other western European countries owe to the United States for the wonderful help which they give us in our defence?

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, I am sure that that is a view that would be shared by the overwhelming majority in your Lordships' House.