HL Deb 17 July 1985 vol 466 cc738-40

2.53 p.m.

Lord Wallace of Coslany

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether, in fixing rents for statutory allotment gardens, local authorities should take into account the recreational status of such plots.

Lord Skelmersdale

My Lords, the allotment Acts require local authorities to charge reasonable rents for their allotments, subject to abatements in cases of individual hardship. My department has long urged local authorities to regard the provision of allotments on an equal basis with the provision of other recreational activities.

Lord Wallace of Coslany

My Lords, may I say to the noble Lord that that was an exceptionally nice Answer, which is very welcome indeed? But is the noble Lord aware that there is a tendency for heavy rent increases to be imposed for plots not related to recreational facilities? What remedy have plot holders in such cases? May I remind the noble Lord that there was a case in the High Court in November 1981 concerning a rent increase of more than 233 per cent., when the judge came down in favour of the plot holders? Can the noble Lord tell me—this is a very important question—what avenue of appeal is there for plot holders? Can they appeal to the Minister when negotiations with the council fail?

Lord Skelmersdale

My Lords, it must be the first time for something like two-and-a-half years that the noble Lord has been pleased by one of my Answers on this subject. I am grateful to him for pointing that out to the House. Rents to be charged for allotments let by local authorities are governed by Section 10(1) of the Allotments Act 1950, which requires them to let their allotments at such rents as tenants may be reasonably expected to pay. As I said in my original Answer, there are of course abatements in cases of individual hardship.

Lord Wallace of Coslany

My Lords, the noble Lord has not really answered the question. Let us suppose that a council makes an increase well above what is regarded as reasonable—and councils are doing it. Who on earth can say what is reasonable under such circumstances? If the tenants feel that the charges are unreasonable, have they the right, after going to the council and protesting, to come to the Minister to appeal? That is what I want to know.

Lord Skelmersdale

My Lords, I am sorry. The noble Lord is quite right; I did not answer the other part of his supplementary question. The Secretary of State has no locus to intervene in disputes between allotment associations and individual authorities. These are matters for the two parties. But, of course, there is the recourse to law if they feel that they are not being treated properly.

Lord Wallace of Coslany

My Lords, I am sorry to come back again, but in point of fact that answer is not at all satisfactory. It costs a tremendous amount of money—

Noble Lords

Question!

Lord Wallace of Coslany

My Lords, is the Minister aware that recourse to law costs a tremendous amount of money? In the case to which I referred, one plot holder was prepared to mortgage his house on a matter of principle. I think it is only reasonable that there should be some recourse, without going to law.

Noble Lords

Question!

Lord Wallace of Coslany

That is the question I am asking, in spite of the interruption of the Chief Whip.

Lord Skelmersdale

My Lords, I have said in answer to the noble Lord that disputes should be settled between the council in question and the allotment association or the individual plot holder. I have also pointed out that my right honourable friend the Secretary of State has no power to intervene in such disputes.

Lord Wallace of Coslany

My Lords, he should have.

Baroness Nicol

My Lords, the persistence of my noble friend is admirable in the circumstances. Having had a couple of days in which to cogitate on the last time he was asked a Question on this subject, will the Minister now tell us how the Government are proposing to break out of this deadlock? The noble Lord says on behalf of the Government that without proof of pressure of need for allotments the Government cannot take action, and yet they will not take action to get the proof. It seems to me that we are in a difficult and ridiculous situation, because my noble friend has proved that there is a great need for something to be done. Has the Minister decided what course of action the Government can take?

Lord Skelmersdale

My Lords, I have made it perfectly clear that the Government will not take action without proof. The noble Baroness is perfectly correct in that respect. If the situation is as described by the noble Lord, Lord Wallace, over several years now, one would have thought that there would have been an enormous number of letters to the Department of the Environment. These have not been forthcoming, which is why I say there is no proof.

Baroness Nicol

My Lords, I am very grateful to the Minister for that answer. I am sure he will have a large postbag in the next few months.