BBC: Finance (Hansard, 31 January 1985)

§ Lord Orr-Ewing
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.
To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will establish a committee to consider alternative ways of raising finance for the BBC's public services broadcasting so that licence holders are not obliged to meet all the additional costs through increased licence fees.

§ Lord Elton
My Lords, my right honourable friend the Home Secretary is aware that the BBC's current application for an increase in the television licence fee has focused interest on alternative ways of raising the finance, but he has reached no firm decision on whether, or how, the matter should be studied further.

§ Lord Orr-Ewing
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that most parliamentarians realise that, with rising costs and new and expensive forms of broadcasting coming along—by satellite, for example—it is really unthinkable that all these extra 744 charges should be put on licence holders? Therefore, will he press the Government to consider most carefully the advantages of setting up a committee, not only to consider new ways in which to raise money but also, perhaps, to consider in which ways the BBC might prune or even shut down some of their services while preserving the principles of public services broadcasting?

§ Lord Elton
My Lords, my right honourable friend has made it clear that he does not envisage any radical change in the licence fee system in the forthcoming settlement. But he has also made it clear that the Government's mind is not closed to changes in the longer term. The debate on alternative ways of financing the BBC will continue, and I shall certainly draw my noble friend's suggestion to the attention of my right honourable friend as one way in which to conduct it.

§ Lord Elwyn-Jones
My Lords, would the public not be prepared to pay a little more by way of the licence fee for the pleasure of seeing the House of Lords being televised?

§ Lord Elton
My Lords, I do not think that we can altogether indulge in a complete act of uniform complacency on the matter.

Lord Winstanley
My Lords, without for a moment supporting advertising on the BBC, would not the noble Lord agree that total financial dependency on the licence fee renders the BBC dangerously dependent upon the Government of the day, whatever Government that may happen to be?

§ Lord Elton
My Lords, on the contrary, once the Government have produced the money then under the charter it is the corporation's business to decide how to spend it.

§ Lord John-Mackie
My Lords, I should like to follow up the question that was asked by my noble and learned friend on the Front Bench. Would it not save a lot of money if they desisted from coming here?

§ Lord Elton
My Lords, the sooner this House becomes accustomed to television and ignores it in the Chamber, the better.

§ Lord Orr-Ewing
My Lords, will my noble friend bear in mind that, however much we debate and discuss the matter, it is very difficult to get at the true facts and the true costs, to find out where there is over-manning or where there are unnecessarily high standards? That is better done by a really investigative committee. It need not go on for years. It should be a sharp, short, well-manned and efficient committee which could look at the ways in which this money is currently being spent and at new ways of raising new money.

§ Lord Elton
My Lords, I shall add that gloss to the suggestion of my noble friend which I shall take to my right honourable friend.

§ Lord Annan
My Lords, does the noble Lord share my doubts as to the need for another inquiry when there have already been two inquiries? One was carried out in the 1970s by McKinsey and another inquiry has been instituted by the BBC into the efficiency of its organisation. Does the noble Lord agree that both inquiries, no doubt starting from the premises given to them by the BBC, will come up with the answer that the BBC display great efficiency in using their income? Nevertheless, would the noble Lord also agree that the thrust of Lord Orr-Ewing's Question is extremely pertinent in that in the opinion of many there could be ways of pruning the higher ranks of the bureaucracy in the BBC, and also that consideration could be given to whether some part of the service which the BBC provides, in their endeavour always to match anything that independent television does, could in fact be left to independent television and the BBC need not provide it?

§ Lord Elton
My Lords, the later of the two independent reviews to which the noble Lord referred will be reporting shortly, and my right honourable friend expects to receive a copy of the report. I shall make sure that he is aware of the noble Lord's views, which are founded upon wide and relevant experience.