§ 2.58 p.m.
§ Lord MolloyMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government what communications they have recently received from official sources in Gibraltar about its future.
§ The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Young)My Lords, we remain in close touch with the Gibraltar Government on a number of issues affecting Gibraltar's future.
§ Lord MolloyMy Lords, I am grateful to the noble Baroness for that reply. Would not she agree that the agreement is a remarkable achievement and that great credit is due to the British Foreign Secretary, Sir Geoffrey Howe, and to Sr. Moran of democratic Spain? In so far as regular meetings are to be held, would not the noble Baroness agree that it would be worthwhile that those meetings should be followed up in every possible way to nurture cultural and economic development between Spain and the people of Gibraltar? Finally, may I please ask whether, when 814 views are submitted by both the followers and supporters of Sir Joshua Hassan and his party, equally the views of Mr. Joe Bossano will be given full consideration; that is, Mr. Bossano's views along with those of Sir Joshua Hassan?
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, I would agree with what the noble Lord, Lord Molloy, says about its being a good agreement that has been reached between Britain and Spain for the opening of the frontier with Gibraltar. In reply to the second part of his question, I would say that consultation within Gibraltar, with the opposition, would of course be a matter for Sir Joshua Hassan.
§ The Earl of LauderdaleMy Lords, would not my noble friend agree that there seems to be considerable anxiety still in Gibraltar about Spanish pretensions to the sovereignty of this terrority? Is she satisfied that our Government have done enough to allay those anxieties?
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, the Government have made their views on the subject of sovereignty very plain in Parliament on a number of occasions, and my right honourable and learned friend made them plain in the press and on television and in the negotiations. I shall of course once again confirm that Her Majesty's Government stand by the preamble to the 1969 Gibraltar Constitution.
§ Lord Cledwyn of PenrhosMy Lords, can the noble Baroness confirm that the European Commission has recently been discussing the final proposals regarding Spain's accession? Can she say whether the question of Gibraltar and its sovereignty was part of that discussion?
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, we have always recognised that the Lisbon Statement allows any subject to be raised by either side, and we have recognised that the Spanish side would wish to raise the subject of sovereignty as part of the negotiations. They are entitled to do so. As I mentioned, we have said that we shall stand by the 1969 constitution. I can confirm that Sr. Moran outlined the Spanish position on the sovereignty of Gibraltar. He has informally put to my right honourable and learned friend some ideas covering possible ways by which Spain would wish to recover the sovereignty of Gibraltar. These ideas will be presented more fully through the diplomatic channel, and until that happens it would not be appropriate to comment on them. However, I should like to confirm that my right honourable and learned friend has made the British Government's view quite plain.
§ Lord Cledwyn of PenrhosMy Lords, I am much obliged to the noble Baroness for that full reply. Will the noble Baroness be good enough to deal with my question—namely, whether these matters were in fact before the Commission when they were discussing the final proposals?
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, I am not absolutely clear what the noble Lord, Lord Cledwyn, means by "the Commission". I have made quite clear the right 815 of Spain to raise the subject of sovereignty. But we have now reached agreement on the advance reciprocal implementation of Community rights, which enabled the frontier to be opened. I have already outlined what might be said by the Spanish Government—and it is for them to put forward formal proposals on sovereignty—and also the view of the British Government. That is where the matter stands.
§ Lord Cledwyn of PenrhosMy Lords, can the House therefore assume that the question of Gibraltar and sovereignty will be no bar whatever to Spain's accession on 1st January next year?
§ Baroness YoungNo, my Lords; it is quite clear that the British Government support Spanish accession to the Community, and we expect it to take place on 1st January 1986.
§ Lord Balfour of InchryeMy Lords, can the Minister give an assurance that in any future relationship between Gibraltar and Spain there will be the removal of the present air restrictions on British civil aircraft entering Gibraltar, which are not allowed to enter Spanish air-space at times when they should be able to do so, having regard to weather conditions and so on? This is a matter of great importance, and brings in the question of safety.
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, I am glad to assure my noble friend Lord Balfour of Inchrye that the Spanish Government have undertaken to take early action necessary to allow safe and effective air communications.
§ Lord BrockwayMy Lords, I should like to ask the noble Baroness whether Her Majesty's Government have considered the alternative of placing Gibraltar and, indeed, all the ports of entry to inland seas, under the authority of the United Nations so that their neutrality can be preserved. If the Government have not considered that, can the noble Baroness inform the House why not?
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, the answer to the first part of Lord Brockway's question is, no, we have not considered it. We do not consider that it would be appropriate. Our position on Gibraltar is quite clear.
Lord Wallace of CoslanyMy Lords, is the noble Baroness aware that both the Government and the Opposition in the House of Assembly in Gibraltar are completely and utterly opposed to the transfer of sovereignty from Britain? The only difference of opinion that seems to arise is as to whether representatives of the Gibraltar Government should take part in the Geneva talks.
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, the Government are aware of the point that the noble Lord makes, and I hope that I have given him an assurance today, as on other occasions, as regards the Government's stand on this matter.
§ Lord MolloyMy Lords, in the peradventure that there could be a serious change in the attitude towards sovereignty, can we be assured that Parliament would be informed immediately? Secondly, will the noble Baroness take up the question of the travel inhibitions placed on about 2,000 Moroccans going to Spain—people who have worked for years with the people of Gibraltar? Lastly, would it not now be possible for the Spanish Government to give Gibraltar some of the trade which goes to other countries? I am referring to shipbuilding and ship-repairing, which comprise one of the backbone industries of Gibraltar.
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, we do not anticipate a change in our policy as regards sovereignty in Gibraltar. I can confirm that Sir Joshua Hassan has said that the public sector employers in Gibraltar are firmly committed not to discharge any Moroccan worker to make way for another from outside of Gibraltar. As far as the future of the dockyard is concerned, there is good news. I understand that 30 ships are already being repaired in the commercial dockyard.
Lady SaltounMy Lords, can the Government say whether the return of sovereignty to Spain in return for a long lease has been, or is still being, considered?
§ Baroness YoungNo, my Lords, it is not.