HL Deb 25 February 1985 vol 460 cc809-10

2.43 p.m.

Lord Stallard

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government what action they propose to take in response to the unprecedented number of submissions made to the Social Security Advisory Committee on proposed changes to the board and lodging regulations, and whether they will withdraw these proposed changes.

Lord Glenarthur

My Lords, the Government will give full consideration to all comments received and to the views of the Social Security Advisory Committee in reaching final decisions. We remain determined to check expenditure on board and lodging and to curb abuse. Regulations will be laid shortly.

Lord Stallard

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for that reply. Will he concede that the vast majority of the submissions made came from voluntary organisations which are daily facing an uphill struggle against the ever increasing problems of our inner cities? Does he not think that the time has now arrived when we should drop these proposals, await the outcome of the current social security reviews, and then come forward with a much more sensible and long-term solution to the problems outlined in those representations?

Lord Glenarthur

No, my Lords; I do not agree with the noble Lord. Over 500 representations, from a wide variety of organisations, were received. Many were critical of one or more aspects of the proposals. The Government are considering the reports that they received and also the SSAC's report. This will be published with the Government's reply when draft regulations are laid before Parliament in the next few weeks.

Lord Kilmarnock

My Lords, will the noble Lord say a word about attendance allowance? Is it not the case that attendance allowance is payable to some residents in homes at the moment and that under the new regulations it will be withdrawn? If so, will it not be more difficult for people to remain in those homes?

Lord Glenarthur

My Lords, I cannot, without notice, comment specifically on attendance allowance. I shall look up the details and let the noble Lord know.

Baroness Jeger

My Lords, while I want to agree with the Government about removing abuses, I wonder whether the noble Lord the Minister can say whether he and his colleagues are taking into account the alternative accommodation which will be necessary for many people if these regulations are imposed as suggested. At a time when local authorities are being restrained in their expenditure what is to happen to people who can no longer stay in the accommodation that they are using at the moment?

Lord Glenarthur

My Lords, certainly we are conscious of many of the anxieties expressed about this and about homelessness generally in relation to the representations to the SSAC. We understand that genuine concern does exist. However, we do not accept that all those now in board and lodging would otherwise be homeless. Nevertheless, they include some very vulnerable people and the Government are anxious to protect them, in particular young single people. We shall take the needs of such people fully into account in considering the SSAC report.

Lord Stallard

My Lords, does not the noble Lord accept that the proposals as outlined will not deal with the abuse that he mentions? Indeed, there are other regulations that can be easily amended to deal with that abuse. Does he not agree that what we really need is a broader, long-term solution to the real problems and not this panic approach that the Government seem to be adopting?

Lord Glenarthur

My Lords, the noble Lord uses the word "panic", but the figures were rising at a most alarming rate. The annual spending for claimants in ordinary board and lodging rose from £52 million in 1979 to £277 million in 1983 and it is estimated to be £380 million in 1984. One could not, particularly with the amount of abuse that is going on, allow that kind of expenditure to continue unchecked. If it had done, it would have affected other parts of social security. That is why it was necessary to restrain it.