§ 2.56 p.m.
§ Lord MolloyMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will consider the case for creating a specialist international commission to examine the SDI programme proposed by the USA, and the apprehensions expressed by the USSR and others.
§ Lord MolloyMy Lords, may I congratulate the noble Baroness on maintaining that old Conservative philosophy of not having the courage to look at the new moon out of respect for the old? Is she aware that the Question simply asks if the case could be considered? If that cannot be considered, there is nothing in the whole field of trying to obtain peace, let alone goodwill, in the whole edifice of the structures of Western and Eastern politics. What is sincerely being asked is for our country to give a lead in trying to find the ways and means—
§ Lord MolloyMy Lords, is the noble Baroness aware, on reflection, that all that is being asked is to try to establish some ways and means of taking the bitterness out of the cold war so that perhaps Great Britain can provide an initiative in finding a way to peace?
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, I did study the original Question of the noble Lord, and I gave him an answer to it. There already exist ample opportunities for international consideration of the implications of SDI.
§ Lord Cledwyn of PenrhosMy Lords, can the noble Baroness tell the House whether the Anglo-American agreement gives the United Kingdom any direction 660 over the SDI programme? Can she further say whether the Government believe that this was an appropriate subject to be placed on the agenda in the Geneva talks?
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, as the noble Lord will be aware, the SDI was discussed at the summit meeting, when President Reagan made it clear that he was going to continue with the research but within the restrictive interpretation of the ABM Treaty. On the other question which the noble Lord asked, about our contribution to this research, we believe that there are opportunities for this if British companies want to take them.
§ Lord Cledwyn of PenrhosMy Lords, with great respect to the noble Baroness, that is not an answer to my question. I was referring to the Anglo-American agreement on SDI, and I asked the noble Baroness whether in fact we have any control over the direction of the matter or whether we are merely hoping to get a little work out of it.
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, there have already been questions on the detail of the Anglo-American agreement. It is quite wide of the Question on the Order Paper, but the noble Lord is quite right in thinking that there is the possibility that a very substantial amount of SDI work consistent with our industrial base could come to this country.
§ Lord BeloffMy Lords, can my noble friend the Minister explain why it is that noble Lords opposite so frequently refer to the alleged dangers of the American research programme and never refer to the Soviet programme on research in space, which has been going on for even longer?
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, I am very grateful to my noble friend for drawing attention to that very important point, which was fully spelt out in a statement made by my right honourable friend Mr. Stanley on 26th November. It is clear that the activities of the United States are only prudent in the light of what is being done by the Soviet Union.
§ Lord Jenkins of PutneyMy Lords, is the noble Baroness aware that there are widespread fears in many countries, not even excluding our own, about taking the arms race into space? Is she not further aware that there are apparently members of her own Government who are apprehensive about American domination in various spheres? Is there no fear felt in the Government about this issue, in which the whole direction of policy, as my noble friend has suggested, will lie in American hands rather than be influenced by those on this side of the Atlantic?
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, I am sure that the noble Lord, Lord Jenkins, is fully aware that the basis of the United Kingdom's policy remains the four points that were agreed at Camp David one year ago.
§ Lord MellishMy Lords, would it not be possible to send copies of Questions of this kind to foreign Governments? I take it for granted that, whatever happens in the argument about peace and war, we shall not drop bombs on ourselves. Therefore, many of 661 the Questions that are being asked of this Government should in fact be asked of foreign Governments. Can we send such Questions on to them?
§ Lord Mackie of BenshieMy Lords, do I understand the noble Baroness aright: that the agreement signed with great flourish simply means that United Kingdom companies may tender for work and that the United States will then examine those tenders? Or does it mean that the United States has an obligation to accept such tenders? In other words, does the agreement mean anything at all other than that United Kingdom companies may tender?
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, the question asked by the noble Lord is wide of that on the Order Paper. If he cares to put it down as a separate Question, then I shall be happy to try to answer it.
§ Lord MolloyMy Lords, is the noble Baroness aware that some of her replies appear to be at variance with Sir Geoffrey Howe's observations at the NATO Foreign Secretaries' conference, where he and Herr Genscher expressed grave apprehensions? Herr Genscher said that the policy of SDI would give super protection to the super powers but would leave the lesser powers in danger. He was supported in that view by Britain's Foreign Secretary, who asserted that we have to find ways and means of talking with the USSR in order to secure peace. Is the noble Baroness aware that the Canadians, too—and the Canadians are important—feel that the present attitude will endanger NORAD?
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, I assure the noble Lord, Lord Molloy, that there is no difference of opinion between the Secretary of State and myself in respect of any of the answers I have given this afternoon. The fact is that the Americans are committed to the common defence both of North America and of Western Europe, which is secured under the NATO treaty, and that there are close and frequent alliance consultations about the implications of SDI for the defence of Europe.