European Lakes and Forests: Environmental Damage (Hansard, 9 December 1985)

§ Lord Ezra
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

§ Lord Skelmersdale
My Lords, there are a number of possible causes, including air pollution, for the damage which has been observed to forests in central Europe. There is a wide consensus among involved scientists that lakes in certain sensitive areas of Europe have been damaged by acid deposition. Both forests and lakes are subject to many stresses and an extensive European research programme, including some £2 million worth of work supported by my department, is aimed at clarifying the factors responsible for the observed damage.

§ Lord Ezra
My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for that information and express appreciation of the research work going on. However, is it not a fact that it is generally recognised that emissions of sulphur 8 dioxide and nitrogen oxides are the prime causes of these troubles? If so, what are we doing to speed up the reduction of these emissions in this country? Will the noble Lord further indicate, in the case of nitrogen oxides, as the reduction in this emission seems to be somewhat less costly and could be more speedily done than in the case of sulphur dioxide, whether appropriate steps will be taken to deal with this?

§ Lord Skelmersdale
Yes, my Lords, sulphur emissions and nitrous oxides are both at the root cause of this particular problem. The United Kingdom sulphur emissions have come down substantially—42 per cent. since 1970—and we intend to achieve further reductions in respect of both sulphur and nitrogen oxides. We expect to achieve this through the development of cheaper and cleaner technologies than those presently available through an enlarged contribution of electricity generation from nuclear power and through further energy conservation measures.

Lord Inglewood
My Lords, can my noble friend tell us what particular industries are responsible for these emissions? Up to a short time ago, and not least in Germany, which is so sensitive about its forests, there was no damage in the forest and no reference to damage at all; now it is repeated the whole time. Apparently damage comes from particular industries. Can the noble Lord tell us which ones?

§ Lord Skelmersdale
My Lords, so far as sulphur emissions are concerned it is principally those industries burning coal and oil:—for example, the electricity industry and the iron and steel industry, and heavy industry of that kind. So far as nitrogen oxides are concerned, it is believed that the principal polluter here is the motor-car engine.

§ Baroness Nicol
My Lords, can the Minister give us a little more information about the European effort to which he has referred? Does he agree that an international effort is needed and that up to now Britain has appeared not to co-operate to the extent that many of our friends feel that we are not be be relied upon in this particular area? The latest example of this is the Norwegian statement this morning that relations between our country and theirs are now at their worst since the Viking invasion. It would be a great relief to all of us to know that there is a truly international effort. Can the noble Lord please spell it out?

§ Lord Skelmersdale
My Lords, I am afraid that I do not have in front of me the figures of the amounts of money that various countries are putting towards research in this area, but I can tell the noble Baroness that there is no pretence about our research. We are spending nearly £3.5 million this year on work on the monitoring and movement of atmospheric pollutants, the acidification of fresh waters, the impact of pollution on historic monuments and other buildings, and the effects on trees and forests. So far as our relations with the Scandinavian countries go, to which the noble Baroness referred, I can only regret that they have reached such an unfortunate stage, and I hope that the situation will improve very soon.

§ Baroness Nicol
My Lords, I think that the Minister has misunderstood my question. What international effort are we making? The Minister refers to our research efforts, but what co-operation are we giving to other international research? Are we working with them?

§ Lord Skelmersdale
Yes, my Lords. I am speaking from memory here, but I know, for example, that there has been a joint research project based on the university of Uppsala in Sweden.

§ Viscount Hanworth
My Lords, does the Minister agree that the Russians are burning coal with a 5 per cent. sulphur content, whereas our own is something nearer 1 per cent.? It seems that the trouble in Germany is certainly caused by the sulphur coming from Russia and not from anywhere else. What steps are being taken to bring pressure on the Russians to do something about it?

§ Lord Skelmersdale
My Lords, with respect, that is an extremely complicated question to answer. I can tell the noble Viscount that East Germany, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Yugoslavia, Finland, Bulgaria, Spain, the USSR and Denmark all emit more sulphur dioxide on a per capita basis that we do.

§ Lady Saltoun of Abernethy
My Lords, would the noble Lord care to comment on the fact that some research has tended to show that ozone is the cause of the trouble?

§ Lord Skelmersdale
Yes, my Lords; it is believed that ozone is increased by the pollutants from motorcar engines arising from nitrogen oxides.

§ Lord Underhill
My Lords, up to the last reply the Minister seemed to be making very definitive statements on the cause of this environmental damage. On what international basis are those statements made and are there any steps on an international basis worldwide to get scientists together to make a definite statement?

§ Lord Skelmersdale
Yes, my Lords; conferences are regularly held at which those scientists who are investigating these problems can communicate and share their ideas and their research work.