§ Lord Mackie of BenshieMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper. I apologise to the House for the fact that perhaps a comma or two is missing, but the meaning is perfectly clear.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they consider that research and development institutions in agriculture have been given enough time to seek replacement of the funds lost through Government cuts from sources in the industry.
§ The Minister of State, Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (Lord Belstead)My Lords, under the revised expenditure plans which have been announced for the funding of research and development by the agriculture departments, no reductions are envisaged in 1985–86. We believe this will allow adequate time for preparations to be made to secure the closer involvement of the industry in the research effort.
§ Lord Mackie of BenshieMy Lords, is it not a fact that although the Minister's Answer indicates that a certain amount of time will be allowed, it will be hardly enough for the Scottish Agriculture Advisory Service, for example, to replace about 41 per cent. of its expenditure?
§ Lord BelsteadMy Lords, as my original reply indicated, we think there is time. However, we have asked for the advice of the Priorities Board on Research and Development and we are awaiting that advice on the prospects of industry funding.
§ Lord Davies of LeekMy Lords, I thank the noble Lord the Minister for his replies up to now. This is a very important matter. Is the Minister aware that the cut in research on animal welfare and agriculture is undermining British prestige in the world, whereas at one time Britain was famous worldwide for its breeding and its agricultural research work, including that on animals?
§ Lord BelsteadMy Lords, Government spending on the entire agricultural, fisheries and food research is around the £200 million mark. This compares very well internationally.
§ Viscount BrookeboroughMy Lords, is my noble friend aware that agriculture is the most important industry in Northern Ireland? Is he also aware that with the average size of farm being 40 acres, no matter 224 how much time is given, there is no prospect of those farms becoming involved if the cuts applied to Northern Ireland are to be the same?
§ Lord BelsteadMy Lords, my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland has not made any statement about research and development.
§ Lord Cledwyn of PenrhosMy Lords, will the noble Lord be good enough to say what consultations have taken place with the Agricultural and Food Research Council and, in particular, with the noble Earl, Lord Selborne, who is its chairman? Is the Minister aware that there is considerable apprehension throughout the country, and particularly in Wales, where there has been a recent severe cut in the work of the plant breeding station at Aberystwyth, which has served not only this country, but also the third world? Can he say, first, what consultations have taken place? Secondly, given that there have already been swingeing cuts in the agricultural institutions, can he say whether any further severe cuts will be made at, say, the Welsh plant breeding station?
§ Lord BelsteadMy Lords, as I made clear to the noble Lord, Lord Mackie, we are consulting the Priorities Board on Research and Development, which was set up within the last year, on both the scope for industry funding in the future and the priorities there ought to be in Government spending on research and development. The Agricultural and Food Research Council is represented on that board in the person of the director and general secretary, Sir Ralph Riley. I cannot give an answer to the noble Lord about the Welsh plant breeding station because we must wait for advice from the priorities board before deciding on our plans.
§ Lord Cledwyn of PenrhosMy Lords, I thank the Minister for that answer. Can he tell the House whether cuts will be made by the Government before there is any assurance of further assistance from industry?
§ Lord BelsteadMy Lords, as I said, we must wait for advice from the priorities board. What is certain is that the money which my right honourable friend the Minister of Agriculture has said will be saved on research and development in the next two years, 1986–87 and 1987–88, totalling £10 million, and then £20 million in the following year, has to be found. But exactly how it is to be found will depend in large measure upon the advice of the priorities board.
§ Lord Mackie of BenshieMy Lords, I hope that the Minister will be able to give the House an assurance that the Government do not regard these cuts as being necessary or possible now because of the very success which farming, in combination with research, has had in producing food and, indeed, surpluses.
§ Lord BelsteadMy Lords, I have already given a figure for total research and development spending in this country. Even after reductions, we will compare very well internationally.
§ Lord Elwyn-JonesMy Lords, can the noble Lord enlighten us about the nature of the priorities board? Who set it up? Who are its members? What are its terms of reference?
§ Lord BelsteadMy Lords, the board was set up by my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Education and Science, Sir Kenneth Durham, chairman of Unilever, is its chairman. It is giving advice in the ways I have indicated in my previous answers, and its members include the director and general secretary of the AFRC itself, Sir Ralph Riley.