HL Deb 29 October 1984 vol 456 cc350-2

3.5 p.m.

Lord Oram

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government what conclusions they have drawn from the Population Conference held in Mexico in August, and what additional resources they propose to make available to help restrain the growth of population, especially in the developing countries.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health and Social Security (Lord Glenarthur)

My Lords, the Government welcome the renewed and strengthened commitment to take action in the field of population as expressed in the detailed recommendations of the conference, and in the Declaration of Mexico City adopted by the conference on its final day. Copies of these documents have been placed in the Library. As I announced to the conference, the United Kingdom plans, subject to parliamentary approval, to increase its overall contribution to multilateral organisations working in the population field by £1.45 million next year.

Lord Oram

My Lords, does the Minister realise what a splendid speech it was that he delivered to the conference? I suspect that he does. Does he appreciate that not the least welcome feature of his speech was the announcement that he has repeated today of further funds for population programmes including those for international agencies engaged in this work? Can the Minister (either now or if I put down a Question for Written Answer) say in more detail what plans the Government now have for implementing the revised world population plan of action which the conference endorsed?

Lord Glenarthur

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord for his kind remarks but I do not think that I can give him all the details that he wants in a short answer now from the dispatch Box. Regarding the extra money, the level of our contributions to the multilateral organisations concerned will be decided in the light of our assessment of the individual programmes. The most general need is to give help to developing country governments in understanding population issues, in dealing with their problems and in assisting individual couples to choose voluntarily the number and spacing of their children.

Baroness Robson of Kiddington

My Lords, while being grateful to the noble Lord for announcing the increase in the Government's contribution towards the solving of population problems in the world, would the noble Lord agree that in the long run the best aid that we can give to the developing world is in helping them to control their population? India had a population of 350 million when they achieved independence. The population is now 720 million and is increasing by 22 million per annum. India could have produced an industrial miracle had there been population control. What I would ask the Government to do is to use an even greater percentage of their overseas aid to help establish education in schools and education in the villages to help control population. And this does not apply only to India, it applies to Kenya and to large parts of Africa.

Lord Glenarthur

My Lords, I agree with the first part of the noble Baroness's supplementary question. If one looks at population trends throughout the world, the population will have risen to 6,127 million by the end of the year 2000. That is almost double what it was in 1974. Regarding increasing aid, this is more a matter for my honourable friend the Minister for Overseas Development and I am sure that he will note what the noble Baroness has said.

Lord Hatch of Lusby

My Lords, may I ask this question? While one may welcome the announcement that he has made as to added assistance from the British Government to the international population programme, would he agree that in the long run the only way of limiting population growth is to raise living standards, and in particular to reduce infant mortality? Is it not the case that in many developing countries where half of the infants die before they have reached the age of five, it is simply impossible to put over the education for family planning and reduction until these figures are reduced—which is a part of the increase in the purchasing power and living standards of the people of developing countries?

Lord Glenarthur

My Lords, we do not share the view that economic development alone will automatically bring about a slowing of the rate of population growth in the developing world. We believe that population programmes make an active contribution to social as well as economic development and must be urgently pursued for those as well as humanitarian reasons. That is the short answer to the noble Lord's supplementary question.

Baroness Gaitskell

My Lords, would not the Minister agree that there is something slightly repulsive in advocating to some people that they should reduce their families? It is a very personal matter. What right have they to tell other people how exactly they are going to have their families—whether large or small?

Lord Glenarthur

My Lords, I agree with much of what the noble Baroness has said. However, I hope that she will note that in the light of the enormous increase in numbers that we expect between now and the year 2000, some help, advice and education should be given, where it is possible to do so, to those in the countries most directly concerned.

Lord Boyd-Carpenter

My Lords, has my noble friend observed the success in Singapore of restraint in population growth by the adroit use by Lee Kuan Yew of the tax system?

Lord Glenarthur

My Lords, that is a most interesting idea. How far it can be pursued elsewhere I am not quite sure.

Baroness Seear

My Lords, will the noble Lord agree that progressive organisations such as, for example, Population Services, with which I am connected, only set up clinics and give help where they have been invited to do so by the countries into which they go? There is no case of forcing it upon them.

Lord Glenarthur

My Lords, that is a very good point and it is certainly the case that there is no coercion in this matter at all. It is very much a question of the countries themselves deciding how best they can be helped.