HL Deb 23 October 1984 vol 456 cc129-32

2.44 p.m.

Lord Oram

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether it is still their intention to attain the 0.7 per cent. of gross national product target for overseas aid.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the Armed Forces (Lord Trefgarne)

My Lords, we remain committed to the United Nations target but, like the previous Government, we are not prepared to set a date for achieving it.

Lord Oram

My Lords, do not the latest figures show a still further decline in the provision of aid as a percentage of GNP and has not that proportion declined, while this Government have been in office, from 0.52 per cent. to 0.35 per cent.? Are we not, year by year, going in the wrong direction? Is not this a shameful situation in contrast to the European countries, most of which have a very much better record than we have? In the cases of France and the Scandinavian countries, they have already attained the 0.7 UN target. Should we not be reversing the situation and going upwards rather than downwards?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, it is true that our aid as a percentage of GNP has fallen since 1979 but I think the figure for that year—0.52 per cent., which the noble Lord refered to—was exceptionally high for reasons unrelated to the actual level of expenditure. The reason is that the OECD count our aid to the World Bank when we deposit notes at the Bank of England and not when the World Bank actually spends the money. This causes year to year fluctuations in our measured performance. We have consistently exceeded the 1 per cent. UN target with a total of official and private flows. In 1983 the amount was 1.25 per cent.

Lord Bauer

My Lords, what is the point of such a target? Should not the size of our aid programme depend on its effectiveness and on our economic situation and not on an arbitrary figure derived from the Pearson Report of 1968?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, I certainly think that our aid budget ought to be determined in accordance with the funds that we have available to support it, and, indeed, in accordance with the effect to which those funds are put, as my noble friend says. As to the existence of a target, although we have had to make the observations which we have about reaching that target—which incidentally were made by our predecessors in exactly the same way—it does perhaps serve a useful purpose with some of the more laggardly nations.

Lord Hatch of Lusby

My Lords, does the noble Lord recall that last Thursday his noble friend Lord Lucas, in answering a Question from me, indicated that the Government, by refusing to give aid and assistance to a tender from British Aerospace, were losing both the contract for Britain and the employment that would have been so provided? Can he tell the House whether it is not the case that British overseas aid provides employment in Britain, and can he say by how much that employment has been

reduced as a result of the reduction of British overseas aid since 1979? Secondly, can he tell the House why it is that the British Government believe they are unable to provide this money because of the world recession when, for instance, the Dutch Government, who are also suffering from the world recession, have now surpassed not just 0.7 per cent. but 1 per cent. of their country's GNP?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, if I may say so, I think that the noble Lord oversimplifies these matters. It is possible to suggest—although it is by no means proven—that money spent overseas or granted overseas for aid purposes finds its way back to our economy, but I hope the noble Lord will not overlook the fact that that money in fact came from the British taxpayer in the first place and therefore has been taken out of the economy anyway.

Lord Taylor of Gryfe

My Lords, in answer to a Question yesterday the Minister expressed his deep and genuine concern about conditions in Ethiopia at the moment. Would he accept that it would be a practical expression of that concern if a more determined effort was made to increase the aid funds from the United Kingdom Government and to attain the target of 0.7 per cent. of GDP? Is he further aware that at the end of the war, when this country was devastated, we committed 1 per cent. of our GDP to overseas assistance to less fortunate countries, and would he suggest that moral standards have declined since those days?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, no; I do not think the moral standards of today are any lower than the moral standards of other times. But I do believe that we must determine our aid budget in accordance with the resources that we can make available from the Government's resources generally. I do not think we have done at all badly with regard to aid. The figure for the last couple of years has shown a modest increase and I hope very much that we shall be able to continue that, although I could not guarantee it.

Lord Oram

My Lords, reverting to the question that was asked by the noble Lord, Lord Bauer, and the answer which the Minister gave to him, is it not perfectly reasonable that the United Nations and UNCTAD should use a percentage of the GNP as the proper yardstick for measuring a country's performance in these matters? Is not the GNP the measure of the resources that are available, to which the Minister referred?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, the figure for which the noble Lord has asked me, and the one which I have given, is, as the noble Lord knows, the percentage of GNP constituted by official development assistance. We in this country, as it happens largely for historical reasons, actually provide very substantial sums for similar purposes from private sources, and that is the figure to which I also referred a little later in my answer.

Lord Hatch of Lusby

My Lords, would the noble Lord be so courteous as to answer the question which I asked and which was also asked by my noble friend Lord Oram? Why is it that he continues with this gramophone record, saying that we cannot afford it and that we have to tailor our aid according to our resources, when on the continent of Europe, in similar circumstances, that aid has been increased despite the recession?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, I am not responsible for what countries on the continent of Europe do, but I can say that our predecessors failed to have regard to the level of our resources, and look at the mess that they got us into!

Lord Jacques

My Lords, will the Minister bear in mind that the previous Government did not have the advantage of £10,000 million in oil taxation?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, I think that the disadvantages of the previous Adminstration would take me rather longer to recite than Question Time allows.