§ 2.56 p.m.
§ Baroness NicolMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.
The Question was as follows:
To ask Her Majesty's Government when they will name the first marine nature reserves within the scope of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981.
§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of the Environment (The Earl of Avon)My Lords, discussions are in progress, However, it is not expected to designate a reserve for some time.
§ Baroness NicolMy Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for replying, though scarcely for the reply. Is the Minister aware of the difficulties being encountered by the Nature Conservancy Council in its attempt to negotiate these reserves? Is he aware that its powers are really very inadequate for what it has to do and that it needs to have the assistance of the Government, particularly in its dealings with the Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food? Will the Minister undertake to attempt to strengthen the powers of the Nature Conservancy Council or at least to give it some assistance in its negotiations with the MAFF?
§ The Earl of AvonMy Lords, I am grateful to the noble Baroness for her supplementary question, and I must say that since she put this Question down on the Order Paper I have made myself aware of the matter and have come to much the same conclusion as the noble Baroness. May I remind her that the premise which the Wildlife and Countryside Act now enacts provides that marine nature reserves can be created only by the consent of all concerned. That is the situation we are in at the moment, trying to make sure that all concerned do consent.
§ Lord Davies of LeekMy Lords, while thanking the noble Earl for that answer, may I ask him whether he is aware that man is becoming a cosmic joke, polluting the atmosphere and the seas with radioactivity? Does he agree that as much as possible we should do our utmost to limit the actions of this terrestrial animal called man?
§ The Earl of AvonMy Lords, I welcome the noble Lord's contribution—and how nice it is to hear him in such good voice again.
§ The Earl of AvonI should say that fishing and recreation continue in national parks, in heritage coast areas of outstanding natural beauty and on sites of special scientific interest. We very much hope that the. same will be possible in the marine nature reserves.
§ Lord Mowbray and StourtonMy Lords, is my noble friend not aware that when the Act was going through Parliament he was giving rather more happy assurances that something more would be forthcoming in this direction than has in fact happened?
§ The Earl of AvonMy Lords, I am delighted that as a result of our undertaking it forthcame, and now we have to deliver.
§ Baroness NicolMy Lords, is the Minister aware that if the co-operation of all concerned is not forthcoming some further power will have to be taken? I understand that certain of these negotiations have been held up by single individuals. Does the Minister agree that that is not an acceptable situation?
§ The Earl of AvonMy Lords, only if the Secretary of State is satisfied that the NCC has sounded out all bodies with a legitimate interest in the area can he then proceed himself. If I may give some words of encouragement to the noble Baroness, an all-party conservation committee of both Houses of Parliament has written to the Prime Minister on this subject, and the Prime Minister has asked my right honourable friends the Secretaries of State for the Environment, for Scotland and for Wales to consider the matter when they meet to discuss the conservation and development programme for the United Kingdom. I am under the impression that the MNRs will be on that agenda.