HL Deb 21 November 1984 vol 457 cc572-4

2.46 p.m.

Baroness David

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they intend Her Majesty's Inspectorate of Schools to remain independent.

The Earl of Swinton

Yes, my Lords.

Baroness David

My Lords, I should like to thank the Minister for that encouraging and unqualified reply. Is he aware that Mr. Stuart Sexton, a special adviser to the Secretary of State, is reported as wanting to reconsider the criteria on which HMI worked to make a link between spending and educational quality? Is that not in danger of infringing HMI independence? Can the Minister give us an assurance that HMI annual reports on the effects of local authority expenditure policies on educational provision will continue to be published annually and without interference from Ministers?

The Earl of Swinton

Yes, my Lords, I can certainly give an assurance on the latter point. In fact it was this Government who ensured that those reports were published, and the Government intend to go on doing so.

Lord Glenamara

My Lords, is the noble Earl aware that in view of the rather alarming statement by the Minister's special adviser, his reply today will give a great deal of satisfaction to many of us who are concerned about the quality of education? Is he also aware that there is a great deal to be said for keeping the present arrangement whereby inspectors are appointed, each one by name by the Queen in Council, and the inspectorate remains independent of the DES but close enough to it to give advice on educational matters which would otherwise be lacking?

The Earl of Swinton

My Lords, I am delighted to give comfort to the noble Lord, and indeed to the noble Baroness, in what I have said today.

Baroness Lockwood

My Lords, in view of the very real disquiet that has been aroused by the criticisms of the inspectorate, will the Minister ask his right honourable friend whether he is prepared to make the same unequivocal reply which has just been given to this House but in a much fuller and more public way so that it may be generally appreciated and understood by all in education?

The Earl of Swinton

My Lords, I understand that my right honourable friend did just that in a debate in the other place the other day.

Baroness David

My Lords, as we are having such an encouraging time, can the Minister further assure us that HMI reports on individual schools and authorities will continue to be published, in spite of opposition from Conservative chairmen and members of education committees, one of whom is quoted in The Times Educational Supplement as saying: To report on a school or college is one thing. To define a link between education and spending is quite another … HMI are simply not qualified to do what they are setting out to do"?

The Earl of Swinton

My Lords, I do not know honestly how many more commitments I can give. As I said before, this Government introduced the publication of HMI reports and I think it is something in which we can take great pride. We intend to go on seeing that this happens.

Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos

My Lords, is the noble Earl aware that in the Queen's Speech there was a firm pledge to raise educational standards during this coming Session? Would he agree that the existence of an independent inspectorate and a very strong inspectorate is absolutely essential if this is to be achieved? Can he say whether the inspectorate is to be increased in order to achieve this higher standard?

The Earl of Swinton

My Lords, I agree with the noble Lord about a strong and independent inspectorate, but I am afraid I have no details about the numbers of inspectors. If the noble Lord puts down a Question on that, I should be delighted to answer it.