§ 3.3 p.m.
§ Lord KilmarnockMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will give a firm date for the publication of their Green Paper on primary care and whether the Binder Hamlyn report will be included as an annexe.
§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health and Social Security (Lord Glenarthur)My Lords, work is well under way on the preparation of the Green Paper, but the Government cannot commit themselves to a precise publication date. The Binder Hamlyn report may be published at the same time as the Green Paper.
§ Lord KilmarnockMy Lords, that response from the noble Lord was not unexpected. I think this is the seventh time this Question has been asked in Parliament. Can the noble Lord explain to me two simple things? First, why does the Secretary of State promise the Green Paper, get everybody excited, get them all on tenterhooks and ready to listen to the Government's thinking on the matter, and then not produce anything? Would he not agree that primary care is of the greatest possible importance to the health of the community and to the relief of pressure by way of the need for acute beds? Secondly, is he not further aware that everyone is awaiting the Government's proposals; that doctors, nurses, pharmacists, are all wanting to help and to collaborate when they know what the Government's thinking is; and that in the meantime they are simply stalled? Finally, will the noble Lord undertake solemnly before the House that this Green Paper, when it does finally emerge, will not be a late, sudden publication followed by a mere month or so for response, and that a proper period for consultation will be given?
§ Lord GlenarthurMy Lords, of course we feel that primary care is important. But it is equally important to ensure that the primary care services are reviewed really thoroughly and that we produce sound proposals which will provoke a wide-ranging debate, in the sort of time frame which I should think the 316 noble Lord would like, not only among the professions concerned but also among the public at large. That is more important than that we meet some pre-ordained, artificial timetable, which is what the noble Lord would like.
§ Lord EnnalsMy Lords, is it not very unsatisfactory that after what I think is now eight months the Minister should still not be able to give a date when the Binder Hamlyn report is to be published? It is obviously of great importance to the whole question of our system of primary health care. First of all it was going to be published, then it was said it might be published, then it was possibly to be published, then it was fairly soon to be published, and now we are back to "might be" published. Are not the professions, the House and the public entitled to see a report which, after all, has been paid for by taxpayers' money? Why are the Minister and his right honourable friend so cagey about this? Or could it be that, like the log of the "Conqueror", it has been lost?
§ Lord GlenarthurMy Lords, I should be very surprised if the noble Lord, when he was a Secretary of State, did not commission reports of some sort that were not in fact published. Of course, the Government commission lots of reports. The fact is that there is no obligation necessarily to publish them. So far as the Binder Hamlyn report is concerned, it deals with the forecasting and control of expenditure on the family practitioner services. This is just one of the issues which need to be considered in relation to primary health care, as I think the noble Lord himself would agree. The purpose of the Green Paper appoach, as I have said at this Box more than once, is to bring all these strands together. The Binder Hamlyn report is being studied in the wider context.
Lord WinstanleyMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware that leaks, of which there have been many, suggest that the Green Paper might be a much more acceptable document than was once feared? In those circumstances, would it not be very helpful to the Government if they could get the Green Paper out as soon as possible? Would it not also be helpful if we could end the uncertainty which exists amongst workers providing family practitioner committee services?
§ Lord GlenarthurMy Lords, I do not really believe all the leaks that I hear, and I am sure that the noble Lord does not, either.
§ Lord KilmarnockMy Lords, would the noble Lord not accept that surely the point of a Green Paper is that it is green? It does not have to be cast in concrete. Is it not the case that what we are expecting are the Government's preliminary reactions in the whole of this very important sphere, in order that those of us who are interested in that sphere and professionals who are competent to comment on it should then make their input? Then we shall be able to come to a final scheme, a White Paper, or something of that sort. So why should there be such a delay on the Green Paper?
§ Lord GlenarthurMy Lords, the delay is purely so that the Green Paper can be cast in the sort of terms which the noble Lord would want. I think that is more important than artificial timetables, which is what the noble Lord and some of the noble Lords opposite seem to want more importantly.