HL Deb 15 May 1984 vol 451 cc1275-6

2.51 p.m.

Lord Molloy

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows: To ask Her Majesty's Government whether the Pay Review Body for Nurses and Midwives and Professions Allied to Medicine has delivered its report to the Prime Minister and whether a statement on that report will be published.

The Lord President of the Council (Viscount Whitelaw)

My right honourable friend the Prime Minister has received the reports and is considering them. An announcement will be made in due course on these and the other review body reports, but this is not likely before the Whitsun Recess.

Lord Molloy

My Lords, is the noble Viscount aware that that reply will cause grave disappointment to all those employed in the National Health Service, particularly Britain's nurses? They are so poorly paid and are hoping for something to restore their morale, which has dropped so low under this Government. Is he further aware that an 18 year-old trainee police constable earns £6,700 a year while an equivalent trainee nurse earns £3,600 a year? Right throughout the nursing profession there is great hope that when the review body reports the value of the British nurse will be realised. On the other hand, there is grave apprehension that in view of the fact that the Prime Minister is not forthcoming what will be announced will be to their detriment and not to their encouragement.

Viscount Whitelaw

My Lords, I can only say that I do not think the noble Lord has any reason for disappointment or disillusionment. He has to wait the result of the report and when the Government announce it we shall see how we get on.

Lord Ennals

My Lords, why is there this delay? Surely it is true that the Prime Minister set up this new review body to take the question of nurses' pay out of cross-party, or any other type of, controversy. It was a review body set up to determine. If the report has been received, can the noble Viscount explain why, first, it has not been published and, secondly, the answer has not yet been given by the Prime Minister?

Viscount Whitelaw

Yes, my Lords; for the very simple reason that this is not the only review body that has produced a report for my right honourable friend the Prime Minister. Surely she and the Government are entitled to look at all these reports together and consider their interaction on each other.

Lord Molloy

My Lords, is the noble Viscount aware that the numerous general secretaries of the various organisations involved, who are part and parcel of our British democratic structure, are beginning to lose their patience? They have never had to wait so long. With particular reference to our nurses, is he further aware that the effects of the cuts—the reduction in wards, the reduction in beds—are causing great stress among nurses? There is a feeling in the profession that we are not taking enough cognisance of nurses care as we are, quite properly, of patient care. Is he aware that in so far as these cuts are increasing discipline, they are causing stress on nurses, and is it not disgraceful that they are willing to endure this because they will in no way take industrial action? They are of the opinion that the British Prime Minister is taking advantage of them.

Viscount Whitelaw

My Lords, the first answer to the noble Lord is that the Prime Minister is not taking advantage of them—quite the reverse. Some of the reasons—many of which I do not necessarily endorse—that the noble Lord puts forward were major factors in the decision to offer a review body status to nurses and the professions allied to medicine. That was done last year. The review body report is being considered and it is reasonable for me to ask the noble Lord to have the patience to see what attitude the Government will take to it when it is announced.

Lord Molloy

My Lords, on behalf of the profession, may I ask the noble Viscount very seriously which Whitsun he had in mind when he said that the report will not be published before Whitsun?

Viscount Whitelaw

This Whitsun, my Lords.

Lord Glenamara

My Lords, when the Government make their announcement on this award, will they bear in mind a comparable body of workers—the teachers—and will they try to hold the balance between the two? The teachers have no review body and the Government have refused them arbitration. Will the Government try to hold a fair balance between the nurses and the teachers?

Viscount Whitelaw

My Lords. I am very grateful to the noble Lord, not least because he has actually endorsed something that I said. I am always grateful when that happens. I said that the Government needed time to consider the ways in which the recommendations of these review bodies and other bodies would interact. I am grateful to the noble Lord for the powerful and emphatic support that he has given to my point of view.