HL Deb 12 March 1984 vol 449 cc481-2

2.40 p.m.

Lord Auckland

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the first Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government how many fatal accidents in the home were brought to their notice in the years 1975–83; whether a majority of such accidents occurred in multi-occupation properties; and whether they are satisfied that relevant legislation currently in force is being observed.

Lord Lyell

My Lords, for the years 1975–82 the total number of fatal accidents in the home in the United Kingdom was 39,348. The figures for 1983 are not yet available. Only in the case of deaths from fire is the type of building known. In 1982 in the United Kingdom deaths from accidental fires in dwellings were, as far as single occupancy dwellings are concerned, 420; for multiple occupancy, 234; and for others and unspecified, 13. The Government are in general satisfied that the current legislation is being observed, but in the case of consumer legislation we see scope for more effective enforcement. The Government expect to announce proposals before long.

Lord Auckland

My Lords, I thank my noble friend the Minister for that Answer. In declaring a non-financial interest as an honorary vice-president of RoSPA and also chairman of the all-party Home Safety Committee when it existed, may I ask my noble friend whether he is aware that this Question is not discriminating against multi-storey, multi-occupation homes? Is he aware that there are instances of unguarded electric fires and oilstoves still being used in some homes, which is illegal under the Home Safety Act? Will he do his best, hearing in mind his Answer, to expedite legislation on this very important issue?

Lord Lyell

My Lords, the answer to my noble friend's first supplementary question about nondiscrimination is, yes. I am very grateful to him for offering me that chance to put the record straight. I would ask him to await comments on the survey which I mentioned in my main Answer. I cannot promise to bring legislation forward. We shall have to see what are the results of the survey.

Lord Graham of Edmonton

My Lords, is the Minister aware that fire is the prime cause of fatalities in houses in multiple occupation? Is he further aware that the greatest number of such houses lie in Greater London and the metropolitan counties? Would the Minister care to tell us what special steps he and his colleagues in the Government are taking to ensure that when those authorities are abolished, not only will their responsibilities be passed to the appropriate local councils but those councils will have sufficient resources and the will to carry out the additional responsibilities?

Lord Lyell

My Lords, I think that the main thrust of the noble Lord's supplementary question goes a little wide of the Question on the Order Paper. But I can assure the noble Lord and all your Lordships that it has traditionally been felt justifiable, because the actions of one occupier in a house in multiple occupation may put another at risk—and the noble Lord has pointed out the danger of fire—to apply statutory measures designed to ensure that satisfactory means of of escape are provided in the event of fire. The noble Lord will be aware that all these measures are spelt out in the various Housing Acts from 1961 right through to 1980.

Lord Ennals

My Lords, in the context of consumer safety, is the noble Lord the Minister aware of the serious problem of small children being poisoned by the ingestion of household products such as bleach, turpentine, weed killers and a number of other products? Do the Government have under consideration the report of the Working Party on Child-Resistant Closures73X2014;of which I happen to be a member—which proposes that they should be compulsory for a small range of poisonous household substances which have been the cause of poisoning in the case of a number of small children?

Lord Lyell

My Lords, I am afraid that I was not aware of that report. I shall certainly study it. I assure the noble Lord that the Government are studying the problem of consumer safety, as I said in my main reply. I stress that, in the period set out in my noble friend's Question, the percentage of fatal accidents caused by such things as non-medicinal products and children taking tablets and similar things, which the noble Lord mentioned, is less than 10 per cent. Of the total number of fatalities.

Lord Ennals

My Lords, will the Minister accept that, even though the number of deaths from such poisoning is very small, the number of children admitted to hospital is substantial? Only a small proportion of such accidents may result in death, but does the noble Lord not agree that the number of deaths is not an adequate way of determining danger?

Lord Lyell

My Lords, I think we are straying a little wide of the Question on the Order Paper. I am grateful to the noble Lord for drawing our attention to the matter, and we shall study his remarks carefully.