§ 3.21 p.m.
§ Lord UnderhillMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they have considered the submission on Streamlining the Cities (Cmnd. 9063) by the Public Transport Users' Groups in Greater London and the Metropolitan Counties.
§ Lord Lucas of ChilworthMy Lords, the submission from the Public Transport Users' Groups is currently being considered along with other submissions received.
§ Lord UnderhillMy Lords, will the Minister confirm that this is a submission from some 20 or more official Passenger Transport Users' Groups in Greater London and the metropolitan counties? Will he also recognise that the submission is highly critical of the proposals in the Government's White paper; that it is concerned that there may be an erosion of the progress made in passenger transport development since the metropolitan counties were established; and that it is concerned that the question of passenger transport will be divorced from other important subjects—not least, strategic planning? As almost every report dealing with Streamlining the Cities is critical, is the consultation really genuine and will the Government consider revising their proposals?
§ Lord Lucas of ChilworthMy Lords, I can confirm that the submission is from a number of transport users' groups. I have to refute nearly all the first set of points which the noble Lord embraced, in that we do not see the submission as particularly underlining a need for a reversal of public transport policy, nor do we see it as underlining a departure from the consideration of social and other needs and so on. So I cannot agree with what the noble Lord is suggesting. So far as consultation is concerned, this is a submission and I said in my original Answer that that submission is being considered.
§ Lord UnderhillMy Lords, I must ask whether the Minister has really read the submission. I have a copy here and my two extracts are only two of seven submissions, all of which are in line with what I said.
§ Lord Lucas of ChilworthYes, my Lords. I have read the submission. I, too, have a copy here and I also have a summary in front of me and I cannot accept what the noble Lord says.
§ Baroness PhillipsMy Lords, can the noble Lord the Minister tell us how many of the voluntary organisations—those for the disabled, the elderly and so on—have put in submissions in this field?
§ Lord Lucas of ChilworthI regret, not without notice, my Lords.
§ Lord Jenkins of PutneyMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware that we are not only concerned with 1367 transport, and that every public organisation concerned with practically every aspect of public policy, and of whatever political party and none, has made submissions to the Government opposing their proposals?
§ Lord Lucas of ChilworthMy Lords, the Question on the Order Paper deals with the submission from the transport users' groups and I certainly do not have at my fingertips any information about any other submissions.