Pesticides: Control of Use (Hansard, 21 June 1984)

§ Lord Hunter of Newington
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

§ The Minister of State, Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (Lord Belstead)
My Lords, it is proposed that legislation should be introduced to ensure the safe and efficient use of pesticides. Statutory control is already exercised over veterinary medicines and fertilisers through the Medicines Act 1968 and the Fertilisers Regulations 1977, respectively.

§ Lord Hunter of Newington
My Lords, I thank the Minister for that Answer. May I ask him whether this legislation will simply confirm the present practice of the pesticides safety precautions scheme and whether he feels that additional safeguards are perhaps necessary in this area? May I also ask the Minister whether this legislation will control the methods of spraying to ensure minimal effective growth and whether the widespread use of antibiotics as feeding additives will be controlled?

§ Lord Belstead
My Lords, the first question which the noble Lord asked me was whether this will put on a statutory basis the existing voluntary pesticides safety precautions scheme. I should like to make it clear that the Government's intention is that the new legislation will require anyone who wishes to import, sell, or supply a pesticide in the United Kingdom to submit the product for clearance and that it will be an offence to use a product not so cleared. We intend to ensure that cleared pesticides are used only in accordance with the conditions of use. Again it would be an offence to breach those conditions. That goes a little wider than the existing scheme. So far as any further ideas are concerned, an undertaking has already been given by the Ministry of Agriculture that there will be consultation with all interested parties. As to the use of antibiotics, my advice is that they are subject to the Medicines Act 1968.

§ Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos
My Lords, does the noble Lord recall that in a recent debate the House was advised by two or three noble Lords who are expert in this matter that the use of antibiotics in feeding stuffs needs to be looked at again? I believe that the noble Lord replied to that debate and said that this was a matter which he would consider. Could the Minister 432 say whether he and his department have given the matter further consideration and whether it will be taken into account in the drafting of the Bill?

§ Lord Belstead
My Lords, we must wait for the consultation which is going to take place in the very near future. I apologise for appearing to be evasive on this point. All I can say at the moment is that the scope of the legislation will be of the kind which I attempted to outline in my original Answer to the noble Lord, Lord Hunter of Newington. Nevertheless, I acknowledge that the noble Lord, Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos, is on to an important point.

§ Lord Hale
My Lords, may I ask the noble Lord to look at some of the Answers which were given to me during the course of the last few months, which included specific undertakings with regard to pesticides containing the Seveso disaster chemical, or the foundation of the dreadful poison which was used by the United States in Vietnam, which was the subject of countless demonstrations? I thought I had received a clear undertaking that legislation would be introduced quite shortly, but the scope of the legislation appears to vary considerably. May I ask the Minister to have another look at what has already been said? If he does so, he will find that I put down a number of Questions on this general subject. On the last occasion I thought that a reassuring statement was made, emanating from the European Community's group on pesticides, which seemed to forecast even the possibility of international legislation.

§ Lord Belstead
My Lords, I shall certainly look at the Answers which have been given to the noble Lord. Lord Hale. However, may I take this opportunity to make the point that under the voluntary procedures which we already have—which broadly are called the pesticides safety precautions scheme, but it depends on other schemes as well—our record in this country is a good record? However, we believe that the pesticides regulations should now be put on a statutory basis. I hope that the noble Lord will feel that that is right: I believe he does. We have also, as I have repeated today, promised that there will be consultation with all interested parties. I hope the House will believe that this is the right way to proceed.

§ Lord Hale
My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that the captain of England, David Gower, was put at risk and became susceptible to really serious poisoning, which kept him out of play for two or three weeks, by rubbing his hand along the pitch at Lords?

§ Lord Belstead
My Lords, I shall take into account what the noble Lord has just said.

§ Baroness Masham of Ilton
My Lords, is the Minister aware that in America some research showed up that there were more cases of leukaemia in rural areas than in urban areas? May I ask the Minister what research in respect of pesticides and fertilisers is being carried out?

§ Lord Belstead
My Lords, research is indeed taking place. There are advisory committees on veterinary medicine. There is the veterinary products committee. 433 There is advice from the Ministry of Agriculture's advisory service on the use of fertilisers. There is also the very distinguished advisory committee on the whole of the pesticides area. Perhaps I may make two points to the noble Baroness. I asserted that our record in this country is a good record. The noble Baroness may be pleased to hear that the working party on pesticides residues which reported in 1982 gave a reassuring picture relating to residues. As to actual incidents of alleged poisoning, anything which has been confirmed in the way of incidents has been, I am very glad to say, on a reducing scale over the last two or three years.