Environment Protection (Hansard, 13 December 1984)

Lord Hunt
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order paper.

§ The Earl of Avon
My Lords, we have a record of achievement in this area of which we are proud; but we shall do more. The progressive implementation of Part II of the Control of Pollution Act, our commitment to introduce unleaded petrol by 1989, and the significant increases we have announced in funding for the Nature Conservancy Council and the Countryside Commission are among the many examples of our approach in different sectors of the environment; and we shall continue to monitor the workings of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981.

Lord Hunt
My Lords, in thanking the noble Earl for that reply, may I ask him whether he is aware that there is nonetheless considerable disappointment among all those who care about the environment at the absence from the Queen's Speech of any reference to environmental policy, if only as an earnest of the Government's concern, apart from the reference to pollution which is covered by the Food and Environment Protection Bill? Is he further aware that there is equal disappointment at the delay in a response to the Countryside Commissions' report on the uplands, which was submitted last March and to which a response had been confidently expected before the end of the last Session? Is it not probable that but for that delay, there would have had to be a reference in the Queen's Speech to environmental policy?

§ The Earl of Avon
My Lords, I am sorry that the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, should feel that way. We have actually published today the response to the Royal Commission on Environmental Pollution's report. Also we have published today our answer to the review of disposal of radioactive waste at sea—the Holliday Report. I should also like to welcome the taking place at this coming week-end of the meeting of the Summit countries on the subject of the environment.

Lord Hunt
My Lords, may I follow that with one more supplementary? While it is satisfactory that there may be legislation through a Private Member's Bill to protect SSSIs under the Wildlife and Countryside Act, is there not an equal and urgent need to halt further losses of moorland in the uplands, and of marshes through drainage in the lowlands, by amending Section 41 of the Wildlife and Countryside Act and the related financial guidelines?

§ The Earl of Avon
My Lords, these are subjects which are being monitored. As the noble Lord says, 395 some people hold the opinion which he has just expressed. I have not yet seen the draft of the Private Member's Bill, and until I have done so I cannot comment on a particular section.

§ Baroness White
My Lords, we entirely appreciate the point just made by the noble Earl that he cannot directly comment on the details of the Private Member's Bill, and while some of them were referred to earlier this week in this House as being probable, may we have his assurance on the following matter? We hope that the Government will take a sympathetic attitude towards amendments, in addition to the closing of the three-month loophole (which is the main objective), if a reasonable consensus can be found between the voluntary environmental organisations and the agriculture and other interests involved. As one example, would the noble Minister agree that the Forestry Commission might well be required to take on responsibilities towards environmental conservation, which are carried by water authorities but not as yet by the Forestry Commission?

§ The Earl of Avon
My Lords, I fully take the noble Baroness's point. Of course the Government will look at all the issues which are raised in the Private Member's Bill. However, I am sure she would not expect me to be able to give a carte blanche, as she has said. But of course we are not going to close our eyes only at Clause 28.

§ Baroness Nicol
My Lords, is the Minister aware that the financial guidelines to which the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, referred are fundamental to the implementation of the Bill, and that there is widespread concern among local authorities, conservation groups and the parks authorities about the operation of the present guidelines? For example, is the Minister aware that Suffolk County Council have estimated that it would cost them between £6 million and £8 million to protect their vulnerable countryside under this Act? It is obviously beyond their means. Can the Minister assure us that these guidelines will be looked at and that next time they will be put before Parliament for scrutiny?

§ The Earl of Avon
My Lords, I equally hope the noble Baroness will welcome the increase in grant in aid to the Nature Conservancy Council and to the Countryside Commission, in the recent announcements, as a good step forward.

§ Baroness White
My Lords, can the noble Earl inform us how far Government thinking supports the suggestion which was recently made informally by Mr. William Waldegrave at Newcastle that we should establish an independent environmental protection agency in Britain?

§ The Earl of Avon
My Lords, I am afraid that I have not read my honourable colleague's statement but it sounds very wise.

Lord Hunt
My Lords, would the Minister bear in mind that there is growing public concern and public awareness about these matters arising out of the exchanges that have taken place? Would he bear in 396 mind that this arises from two incontrovertible, contradictory facts which have become public knowledge? The first is the continuing loss to agriculture and other development of features in the countryside which are traditional to our landscape. The second incontrovertible fact is the overproduction of a number of agricultural products: grain, milk and various kinds of meat.

§ The Earl of Avon
My Lords, I am only too well aware of the debate on this subject, going on in the country. I assure the noble Lord that we listen very carefully to all the comments.