Arts Council: Future Strategy (Hansard, 4 April 1984)

§ Lord Jenkins of Putney
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.
The Question was as follows: To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they are aware of public concern about the recent decisions by the Arts Council.

The Minister of State, Privy Council Office, and Minister for the Arts (The Earl of Gowrie)
My Lords, I believe that the Arts Council's review of its priorities is to be commended, and I welcome its decision to free resources for innovation and development, particu-larly in the regions. I am delighted that the strategy document The Glory of the Garden has in fact been extremely well received.

§ Lord Jenkins of Putney
My Lords, is the noble Earl aware that a welcome proposal to increase arts subsidy outside London should not be carried out at the cost of killing existing clients of the Arts Council? Is he further aware that the erosion of the arm's length principle which this policy seems to indicate and of the response theory of patronage, introduces an unwelcome element of what might be called the Fuhrerprinzip into the structure of public support for the arts? Will he arrange an early debate in which all these matters can be discussed?

The Earl of Gowrie
My Lords, in respect of the arm's length principle, I can only say that I would consider myself to make a most unlikely Fůhrer. The Arts Council knows very well what it is doing and, as I have said, I think that what it is doing is to be commended. There is no evidence of any likely decimation of arts provision in London. But many people, including many on the noble Lord's side of the House, have drawn attention in the past to the imbalance between the regions and London.

§ Lord Renton
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that there are large expanded towns and new towns with many people living in them, which have been artistically deprived ever since the expansion started? Is he also aware that the Arts Council is moving in the right direction in order to see to it that the people in those towns can enjoy the best things in life without having to come to London?

The Earl of Gowrie
My Lords, I welcome what my noble friend has said and I will draw the attention of the Arts Council to my noble friend's remarks.

§ Lord Donaldson of Kingsbridge
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that, whereas it may be acceptable to avoid giving help to things which want to start, it is almost never acceptable to withdraw funds from things which have started and which are going well? That seems to me to be one of the most serious criticisms of the present developments which are indicated by the recent Arts Council decisions.

The Earl of Gowrie
My Lords, I only disclaim friendship with the noble Lord in the politcal rather than the personal sense. But I would draw his attention to the wise remark of Sir William Rees-Mogg that all arts funding is on a leasehold rather than a freehold basis.

§ Lord Strabolgi
My Lords, is the noble Earl aware that all these threatened closures, including many in the regions, and the threat to axe one of our most distinguished national orchestras, stem from the fact that the Government are not funding the Arts Council sufficiently?

The Earl of Gowrie
My Lords, the Government provided an 8.7 per cent. increase to the Arts Council this year, which is considerably above the rate of inflation and considerably above the level pegging which was my own ministerial remit. I would also point out to the noble Lord, Lord Strabolgi, that that figure does not include wiping off several significant deficits on the part of major companies. If one were to 713 be a little naughty in accounting terms, one could well add those on, in which case the figure would be closer to 11 per cent. I do not think that there is any substance in what the noble Lord is saying at all.

§ Viscount Eccles
My Lords, I agree very much with the Minister that the Arts Council's new policy is right, but does he think we can go much further in that desirable direction unless the great national companies—Covent Garden and the National Theatre—are directly funded and taken off the back of the Arts Council?

The Earl of Gowrie
My Lords, my noble friend with his distinguished record as a previous Minister will be listened to in respect of that advice. But I have to say that I remain at present rather sceptical about whether it would be wise for Ministers to be directly involved in the fortunes of any individual company, however distinguished.

§ Lord Taylor of Gryfe
My Lords, is the Minister aware that the new emphasis of the distribution of Arts Council funds to the regions is much welcomed in certain parts of the country' and that his rescue operation for Scottish Opera is much appreciated North of the Border?

The Earl of Gowrie
My Lords, I am very grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Taylor of Gryfe, and I shall draw my own attention to his remarks!

§ Lord Moyne
My Lords, will the noble Earl comment on a view put forward in a letter in The Times today in which it was suggested that the Arts Council would give no support in areas which were deprived of support by their local authorities, thus making them more deprived than ever?

The Earl of Gowrie
My Lords, I will look at the point made by my noble friend, but I do not think there are reasonable grounds for fear in this area.

§ Lord Strabolgi
My Lords, may I ask the noble Earl how he thinks that we shall be able to bring more music to the regions by closing down Opera 80, which has been so successful in Liverpool?

The Earl of Gowrie
My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Strabolgi, will be aware of the vastly increased provision in recent years under successive Governments—as I would be the first to say in the provision of the very admirable but very expensive high art form of opera. However, that phenomenon, which I certainly welcome as an opera lover, does not of course mean that every opera company can be immune from financial problems.

§ Lord Jenkins of Putney
My Lords, is the noble Earl aware that many of us are delighted to hear that he is not in favour of direct funding and to that extent he will fend off the possibility of more dirigiste policies which appear to be in danger of being adopted by the Arts Council? Is he further aware that I am reliably informed that both the Chairman and the General Secretary of the Arts Council do not stand on his left? 714 Finally, I should like to press the noble Earl a little further on the question of a debate. Will he provide Government time for a debate on all these matters?

The Earl of Gowrie
My Lords, the provision of time for a debate is, of course, not a matter for me. But the usual channels can take the matter up and I shall be delighted to respond to the wishes of the House.