HL Deb 30 November 1983 vol 445 cc693-5

3.2 p.m.

Lord Avebury

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether, in view of the serious danger to the health of Mr. Keith Carmichael and the risk of permanent damage to his spine arising from the lack of medical treatment in the prison where he is held on remand in Aiyadh, Saudi Arabia, they will make representation to the Saudi authorities that he should be released on bail, for the purpose of obtaining treatment in the United Kingdom.

Baroness Young

My Lords, representations were made by my right honourable and learned friend the Foreign and Commonwealth Secretary to the Saudi Foreign Minister during Prince Saud's recent visit here, and later by our Ambassador in Jedda, requesting the release and repatriation of Mr. Carmichael for further medical examination and treatment in the United Kingdom. Saudi legal procedures have no provision for bail as such, although a person held for debt can be released from custody if a guarantor is found to stand surety for all claims against that person. In Mr. Carmichael's case it has not been possible to find such a guarantor. There has been no official response to our representations from the Saudi authorities so far but Prince Saud did promise to do what he could to speed up the legal process. There is evidence that this is indeed happening. We shall continue to press the Saudi authorities to resolve this case as quickly as possible.

Lord Avebury

My Lords, is the noble Baroness aware that we are most grateful for the help that she has given to Mr. Keith Carmichael and, particularly, for the representations that have been made at the highest possible level that he should be allowed to come back to Britain for medical treatment? Has she studied the report by the consultant traumatologist, who said that Mr. Keith Carmichael was suffering from a compression fracture of the spine which caused him excrutiating pain? If it is not possible to arrange for Mr. Carmichael's repatriation immediately, could he not at least continue to be treated by the consultant in whom he has some confidence, and could he not be allowed the physiotherapy on a daily basis which the consultant has said is necessary if Mr. Carmichael is not to suffer permanent incapacity in his future life?

Baroness Young

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord for the acknowledgement of the help that has been given by our embassy in Saudi Arabia. On the question of the present state of Mr. Carmichael's health, we are of course concerned. That is why we have continued to make representations about his case.

Baroness Ewart-Biggs

My Lords, will the noble Baroness the Minister say how often the British consul is allowed to visit prisoners, when the British consul last visited prisoners and whether the embassy is giving the highest priority to the need to get medical attention for the prisoners?

Baroness Young

My Lords, the embassy first gained access to Mr. Carmichael in prison on 31st January 1982. On my calculation of the numbers of dates, he was visited on 13 occasions in 1982 and has been visited on 20 occasions in 1983. A call was made to the prison, but Mr. Carmichael was in hospital.

Lord Elwyn-Jones

My Lords, has a report upon the case been sought from the director of the curiously called Civil Rights Centre, where Mr. Carmichael is held? May I ask a further general question? Is the noble Baroness aware that reduction in our consular representation overseas has meant in some cases that British nationals kept in prisons overseas are not getting the assistance that they require?

Baroness Young

My Lords, if I may take the noble and learned Lord's last point first, I think that it will be quite clear from what I have already given in answer to his noble friend who put the preceding supplementary question that the embassy have taken a great deal of care in this particular case, and that we continue to make representations. In reply to the first point that he raised, I think it very important that in making representations to the Saudi Government we leave it to the embassy to advance Mr. Carmichael's case in whatever way they judge is the most likely to produce results.

Lord Whaddon

My Lords, can the noble Baroness tell the House how many United Kingdom citizens are held currently in Saudi gaols? Has she any information on how many of these are sick; and is she confident that they are as a whole being given the necessary medical attention?

Baroness Young

My Lords, I cannot answer the noble Lord's supplementary question without notice. I have no reason for supposing, if there are a number of other British citizens imprisoned in Saudi Arabia, that they do not have the same attention from the embassy as has Mr. Carmichael.

Lord Avebury

My Lords, is the noble Baroness aware that there is a feeling that American citizens in Saudi gaols requiring medical attention have received somewhat better treatment than our own prisoners, and that one such person was recently transferred to the King Faisal specialist hospital for treatment? Could we not make additional representations that Mr. Carmichael be treated in that hospital where proper orthopaedic facilities are available?

Baroness Young

My Lords, I really do not feel that I can add anything to what I have said with regard to the representations that we should make. In cases like this, I think that those who are in the embassy on the spot are in the best position to judge what is the right procedure. I would advise that we should leave it to them, bearing in mind all that the noble Lord has said about this case.