§ 2.53 p.m.
§ Lord Hatch of LusbyMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government how many citizens of the Commonwealth were killed and injured in the American invasion and occupation of Grenada.
§ The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Young)My Lords, the United States authorities have told us that 45 Grenadians were killed and 280 wounded. No citizens of Commonwealth countries other than Grenada were killed or injured.
§ Lord Hatch of LusbyMy Lords, may I thank the noble Baroness for that Answer. Is she aware that many varying figures have been given as to the killed and wounded citizens of both Commonwealth and other countries? Is she satisfied that this invasion of Grenada, which was claimed to be to save life, has actually saved more lives than it has cost?
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, in answer to the first supplementary question, I have given the figures which were provided by the United States in Washington, and to the best of my knowledge and belief they are the best, up-to-date and correct figures that we have. On the second point, it is not for me to speak for the American Government: but one of the reasons given for the action they took was to save the lives of American citizens in Grenada.
Lord Paget of NorthamptonMy Lords, is it possible to guess how many of our Commonwealth citizens were saved and their property preserved by the rescue action taken by the Americans? Will we take proper steps to express our gratitude?
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, it is a very dangerous thing to guess at anything on an occasion such as this. We have said that we wish to see a return to democracy in Grenada, and we hope that that process is now taking place.
§ Lord GridleyMy Lords, may I ask my noble friend the Minister whether she would not agree that in the granting of independence to any nation it is always difficult for Britain to decide the right time, and that in the case of the invasion of Grenada this was a rescue of the Grenadian people from an intolerable situation?
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, we did not take the view at the time of the invasion that it would be justified for us to participate in military action. We took this decision in the light of our exchanges with Caribbean Governments and the United States and the decision of CARICOM in favour of political and economic measures against Grenada.
Viscount St. DavidsMy Lords, I see the word "invasion" is on the Order Paper. Was this an invasion: and, if so. how could it be? According to everything that I have ever heard an invasion is an 692 incursion into another country, either military or otherwise, against the wishes of its inhabitants or its Government. Can the noble Baroness tell me whether this was against the wishes of the inhabitants of Grenada? They seem to have been very happy about it. Was it against the wishes of the Government of Grenada? If so, was this the murderous army which had just murdered the Prime Minister and seven of his colleagues? That so-called Government was not recognised even by Cuba or Russia. Was not the only part of government remaining the Governor General, who called for help?
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, I do not intend to dispute the terminology here. The fact was that the Organisation of East Caribbean States asked the United States to intervene in Grenada.
§ Lord Elwyn-JonesMy Lords, is the noble Baroness able to give the House any information about the proposal for a Commonwealth peace-keeping force in Grenada? If such a proposal comes forward, will Her Majesty's Government be prepared to participate in such a proposal? I am asking this in the hope of some constructive rather than destructive questions.
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, I thank the noble and learned Lord for that. In the communique which the Commonwealth leaders issued at the end of their meeting in New Delhi yesterday they have asked the Commonwealth Secretary General to undertake a special study of the needs of small states. We stand ready to assist as appropriate.
§ Lord Jenkins of PutneyMy Lords, as this invasion took place against the wishes of Her Majesty's Government, what protest has Her Majesty's Government made to the Government of the United States concerning the matter? What claims for compensation have been put forward on behalf of the dependants of the Grenadians who have been killed?
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Jenkins of Putney, is well aware of the stand that we took on the resolution of the United Nations when we abstained. My reply to his second point is that that would be a matter for the Grenadian authorities.
§ Lord Pitt of HampsteadMy Lords, in view of the question that has been asked, I wonder whether the Minister can tell us how many Grenadians were killed or wounded when the People's Revolutionary Army turned its guns on the populace prior to killing the Prime Minister, three Cabinet Ministers and two trade union leaders?
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, I regret that I do not have those figures available. If I can get them I shall write to the noble lord.
§ Lord MonsonMy Lords, will the noble Baroness care to pay tribute to those of our Commonwealth partners, notably Jamaica, Barbados and Dominica, who have helped to restore freedom and the rule of law to the people of Grenada?
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, I am well aware that contributions towards the forces in Grenada were sent 693 from a number of Caribbean countrics of the Commonwealth, which was their right. Her Majesty's Government are pleased that there will soon be a return to democracy in Grenada.
§ Lord BrockwayMy Lords, have the Government noted the declaration yesterday by the Commonwealth Ministers' Conference welcoming a civilian Government, demanding the withdrawal of all foreign troops, an early election and a contribution by Governments for the restructure of Grenada? Have the Government reached any decision about such aid?
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, the United States have said that combat troops are due to leave Grenada by Christmas. On the second point, the noble Lord will he aware of the answer that my right honourable friend Mr. Raison gave in another place on 28th November indicating that we have agreed to provide a total of three quarters of a million pounds in grants to help meet immediate development needs, including help with police training, and with training and advice.
§ Lord Hatch of LusbyMy Lords, I am sure that the noble Baroness the Minister feels as deeply saddened as the rest of us by the loss of life in this Commonwealth country and I should like to ask her to express that regret on behalf of the Government and of Parliament. In view of this loss of life among Commonwealth citizens, may I ask whether her attention has been drawn to a report in the American Time Magazine which states that the White House was,
looking for any opportunity that came along where we could take a direct punch at the other side's nose"—
§ Lord Hatch of LusbyMy Lords, I continue:
with a maximum chance of success and minimum"—
§ Lord Hatch of LusbyMy Lords, has the attention of the noble Baroness been drawn to this question, and does the Government equate this with the American claim that they went in to Grenada in order to save American lives?
§ Baroness YoungMy Lords, it is not for me to comment on an article which appears in an American magazine. Her Majesty's Government have accepted the explanation that the Americans gave for their intervention in Grenada as being the correct one.