§ 3.10 p.m.
§ Lord GisboroughMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they are satisfied with the positioning of the solid double and solid and dotted white line system on public highways.
§ Lord Lucas of ChilworthMy Lords, the criteria for the installation of double white lines are given in chapter 5 of the Traffic Signs Manual issued by the Department of Transport of which there is a copy in the Library of the House. Highway authorities are advised to ensure that double white lines conform to these criteria. My right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Transport is satisfied that the criteria are generally well observed.
§ Lord GisboroughMy Lords, I thank my noble friend for that Answer. May I ask whether he agrees that, in principle, double white lines have made a great contribution to safety? Will he agree, however, that the system has proliferated, and that the man with the paint brush has almost indiscriminately painted the roads to try and take away the decisions of the motorist? Does he agree that the system is therefore likely to come into disrepute? Has my noble friend noticed that there are many places where the dotted line indicates that one can overtake but where it would be quite dangerous to do so; and, vice versa, places where one cannot overtake but where relative speeds indicate that it is safe to do so? Does my noble friend not agree that the system should be confined to particular areas, perhaps crests and dangerous corners, so that the effectiveness of it is not cheapened by overuse?
§ Lord Lucas of ChilworthMy Lords, I can understand my noble friend's concern in this matter. Solid white lines are installed only when forward visibility falls below a certain value. The value used in the criteria is the safe stopping distance related to the speed of traffic. There has to be a measure of control through the double line system and the good sensibility of the driver. I might perhaps draw my noble friend's attention to paragraphs 78 and 85 of the Highway Code, which go to some length in explaining the criteria that drivers should observe when overtaking.
§ Lord John-MackieMy Lords, can the noble Lord explain what one does when one comes to an area of white hatched lines? We know what to do when we come to yellow hatched areas, but what about these enormous areas of white hatched lines? What are you supposed to do on one of those?
§ Lord Lucas of ChilworthMy Lords, it depends how the hatching is contained. If the hatching is contained in a solid white line, that is a prohibited area and it would be an offence to cross over those hatched lines. If one was apprehended, one might find a penalty of three points against the 12 in the list of penalty points. If, however, the hatching is contained by a dotted line, an interrupted white line, that is an advisory warning, and the noble Lord would take his life and perhaps someone else's into his hands were he to cross over that danger area.
§ Lord Mowbray and StourtonMy Lords, is my noble friend aware that if he were to respond to the blandishments of my noble friend who asked this Question he would cause much dismay in many people's hearts?
§ Lord Lucas of ChilworthMy Lords, I am sure that my noble friend is right.
§ Lord UnderhillMy Lords, does the noble Lord understand that a considerable number of motorists—the majority of motorists—recognise that these markings are for their own safety? If there is any difficulty, could the department consider using radio or television spots from time to time to draw attention to these and possibly other important points?
§ Lord Lucas of ChilworthMy Lords, the setting down of white lines on trunk roads is the responsibility of the department. It is, however, the local highway authority which is responsible for the white lines in its own area. Most white lines are in urban areas. It is therefore a local matter involving local people and local decisions.
§ Lord UnderhillMy Lords, I think the noble Lord has mistaken what I asked. There seems to be confusion about, or a tendency to ignore, these markings, which are valuable to us. I was asking whether publicity on the correct use of them by motorists could be given on radio and television.
§ Lord Lucas of ChilworthMy Lords, my department already spends a good deal of money on advising motorists through television and by other publicity. But certainly the point that the noble Lord makes will be borne in mind when we review our publicity programmes.
§ Lord John-MackieMy Lords, would the noble Lord like to accompany me one day so that I can show him areas where it is impossible not to go on to hatched areas contained by solid lines?
§ Lord Lucas of ChilworthMy Lords, if the noble Lord would like to write to me explaining where the difficulty that he perceives arises, I will have it investigated through the regional office and write to him. That might save both of us a lot of time.
§ Lord GisboroughMy Lords, would my noble friend not agree that there are not only the double solid lines, the solid lines dotted on one side or the other and the solid lines hatched with dotted lines, but also single dotted lines, single intermittent lines, long intermittent lines, solid lines that go down the side, and so on? Does he not think that it has become rather a dog's breakfast?
§ Lord Lucas of ChilworthMy Lords, no. It is quite simple for a reasonably intelligent motorist to study the Highway Code, and he will find no great difficulty. I should add, perhaps, that all signing on our roads conforms with international standards.