HL Deb 24 November 1983 vol 445 cc350-1

3.22 p.m.

Baroness David

My Lords. I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether students intending to enter teaching by the Post-Graduate Certificate of Education route will be prevented from so doing if their first degree is not in a subject related to the school curriculum.

The Earl of Swinton

My Lords, this Government intend that new entrants to the teaching profession should have the best possible preparation for their role. They are currently considering advice from the Advisory Committee on the Supply and Education of Teachers (ACSET) on improvements for initial teacher training in England and Wales, including a recommendation that institutions offering postgraduate courses of initial teacher training should satisfy themselves that the content of a candidate's initial degree relates appropriately to the curriculum of primary or secondary schools, whichever is relevant. The Government will make their views known as soon as possible.

Baroness David

My Lords, I thank the Minister for that moderately reassuring reply. However, would he not agree that any restrictions of that type would make no logical or educational sense for teachers of primary schools? Indeed, would it really make much difference whether the first degree was in mediaeval history, architecture, philosophy or social anthropology?

The Earl of Swinton

My Lords, I would agree that it would be difficult to single out a particular degree subject as being suitable or unsuitable for an intending school teacher. We acknowledge that the title of a degree course may not he a good guide to its content, and it is the latter which is important. No particular degree course has been named as unsuitable. Without anticipating the decision of my right honourable friend in the light of the advice he has received, I shall venture only to remark that the White Paper anticipates a force of primary school teachers equipped to teach across the broad range of the curriculums as classroom teachers, yet also to contribute a particular teaching strength to the school as a whole. If the PGCE student is to measure up to the requirements I should have thought it important that the foundations of academic knowledge should be there before he or she embarks on a short professional training course.

Baroness David

My Lords, could the Minister ask the Secretary of State and his colleagues to make quite sure that, when decisions are made in this matter, the students will have plenty of warning about what is going to happen so that it is not after they have started on their first degree or have reached their third year that they know that they have chosen an inappropriate subject?

The Earl of Swinton

Yes, my Lords, I shall certainly draw that to the attention of my right honourable friend.

Lord Taylor of Blackburn

My Lords, regardless of what has been said so far in connection with the curriculum, the Minister must be aware that the curriculum is the responsibility of the governors of the school?

The Earl of Swinton

Yes, my Lords, I do not see where the difficulty lies. Presumably they look for a teacher who wants to teach that particular curriculum or subject.

Lord Bowden

My Lords, is it not true that in some countries all teachers are expected to be graduates? I am sure that someone could tell us for certain whether that is so. Is it not true in Scotland that all teachers in schools, except the most elementary, are required to be graduates, but that there is no particular connection between the subject in which they graduated and the subject which they are required to teach?

The Earl of Swinton

My Lords, I can only answer for the United Kingdom, and probably better for certain parts than for others. I would not know about other countries. The noble Lord has referred to Scotland. Entrants to postgraduate secondary teacher training must have completed two years of degree level study in a subject relevant to the secondary school curriculum. There is no similar restriction for entrants to primary training, but the question of relevant degree study is being considered.