§ 2.47 p.m.
§ Lord BeswickMy Lords, in the absence of my noble friend Lord Davies of Leek, who unfortunately is ill, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in his name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they are aware of the report of the Richmond Fellowship on Mental Health and the Community and its recommendations, particularly that there should be a Minister with special responsibility for Mental Health.
§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health and Social Security (Lord Glenarthur)Yes, my Lords, Her Majesty's Government are aware of this report and its recommendations. There already is a Minister with special responsibility for mental health—me, my Lords.
§ Lord BeswickMy Lords, I am delighted to hear that the noble Lord has this responsibility, but he has, with respect, been hiding his light under a bushel. Would he not agree that this rapport with interested people and organisations outside, and probably his influence within Whitehall, would be more effective if it were known that he was designated as the Minister responsible for the mentally ill, as was of course at one time the Minister for the physically handicapped?
§ Lord GlenarthurMy Lords, this would really be more a matter for my right honourable friend the Secretary of State and my right honourable friend the Prime Minister to decide, but I think there is a risk that it would in fact devalue to some extent the importance, because many other people could also lay claim to a specially labelled Minister, if I may use those words.
§ Lord Simon of GlaisdaleMy Lords, as the surviving member of the Percy Royal Commission, may I ask the noble Lord whether, in considering this matter, he will bear in mind the desirability of doing nothing to impair the increased recognition of mental ailment as illness and incapacity, not to be hived off separately so as to run into the danger of the past of regarding mental ailment as a subject for shame and concealment'?
§ Lord GlenarthurYes, my Lords, I shall do all that I can to do what the noble and learned Lord says. The Government have made it perfectly clear that they attach great importance to health authorities establishing locally what is best in the full field of mental illness.
§ Baroness JegerMy Lords, is the Minister aware that many parents of mentally handicapped children do not know where to go for help? Do they go to the 558 health authority, the education authority or the social services authority? Many of these parents of mentally handicapped children find that there is no help at all. Is there not some way in which, as my noble friend has said, the services could all be brought together, which would help parents in this situation?
§ Lord GlenarthurMy Lords, I recognise the point that the noble Baroness is making, but we have consistently expressed the view that voluntary organisations also have a very important part to play in this field. The provision of comprehensive local services requires the co-operation and collaboration of health authorities, local authorities and voluntary bodies. There are various voluntary bodies in the field, and I have spoken to most of them as part of my present responsibilities.
§ Lord Elwyn-JonesMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware of the gratitude that is felt towards him personally for his personal support of the work of the Mental Health Foundation?
§ Lord GlenarthurMy Lords, I am very grateful to the noble and learned Lord for his kind remarks.
§ Baroness FaithfullMy Lords, is my noble friend aware that not only the Richmond Fellowship will be glad to know that he has been designated to have special responsibility for mental health but all those in the mental health field? May I ask him whether the Mental Health Commission, which was recommended in the last Mental Health Act, has been set up?
§ Lord GlenarthurMy Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend for her encouragement. The Mental Health Commission, under the leadership of my noble friend Lord Colville of Culross, is indeed in being. It is at present working out its own terms of reference within departmental guidelines.
§ Lord KilmarnockMy Lords, will the Minister remind the House when the Mental Health Act Commission is due to make its first report?
§ Lord GlenarthurNot off the top of my head, my Lords, but I will find out and let the noble Lord know.
Lord RichardsonMy Lords, may I ask the Minister whether, when he is considering the whole of this report, he will take particular note of the importance of persuading the public that the Government and all concerned really mean to take the subject seriously? Mental health is a subject about which it is difficult to persuade the public to be serious in the light of other pressures and other demands.
§ Lord GlenarthurYes, my Lords, we will take it seriously. The noble Lord might like to know that the chairman of the group which produced the report, the noble Earl, Lord Longford, is coming to talk to me on 10th November to discuss the conclusions and recommendations of the report, but the Government's consideration of the report in its entirety is not yet complete. It is probably best to discuss it first with those who produced it.
§ Lord MolloyMy Lords, would the Minister be prepared to look at any regional health authority that has designs to close mental and psychiatric hospitals, which would be in total opposition to what he has just told the House?
§ Lord GlenarthurNo, my Lords; I entirely disagree with the noble Lord, Lord Molloy. The programme for any closure of hospitals is reviewed regularly by Ministers when they have their review meetings with the regional health authorities. I hope that the noble Lord is not suggesting that some of the very large and pretty hideous and very expensive to run Victorian mental health institutions should be kept in being when they are not strictly necessary. The whole point is to try to get people back into the community if at all possible.
§ Lord MolloyMy Lords, is the Minister aware that the entire top consultative staff right the way through are unanimous in their view that it would be a crime to abolish the hospitals I mentioned?
§ Lord GlenarthurMy Lords, the noble Lord's view runs quite contrary to the views that have been expressed to me on the many visits I have made to mental institutions all round the country during the last three or four months.
§ Lord BeswickMy Lords, when the question of the possibility of the appointment of a known Minister with responsibility is considered, will the noble Lord ensure that his colleagues know the extent of this problem? Will he emphasise, as is stated in the report, that one woman in five and one man in nine will need psychiatric treatment at some time during their lives? The extent of this problem is not sufficiently appreciated.
§ Lord GlenarthurMy Lords, I answered that when I spoke to an earlier supplementary. We recognise what the noble Lord says and we will consider it in its entirety. The Government are at the moment looking at the report and will produce a view on it in due course.