§ Baroness Burton of CoventryMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they accept the recommendation of the International Civil Aviation Organisation that organisations issuing licences have an important obligation to see that the terms of the licences are carried out; and whether they will make a statement clarifying the position of the Department of Trade and the Civil Aviation Authority on this matter.
§ The Secretary of State for Trade (Lord Cockfield)My Lords, Her Majesty's Government accepted the recommendations on tariff enforcement which were adopted at the Special Air Transport Conference in Montreal in April 1977 and the Second Air Transport Conference held there in February 1980. The policies of the Department of Trade and of the Civil Aviation Authority are consistent with this position.
§ Baroness Burton of CoventryMy Lords, could the Minister go a little further than that? Although I am glad that the Government accept the recommendations made at both those conferences, does it mean that the Government, the Department of Trade and the Civil Aviation Authority will check that this clause is held to by those holding the licences?
§ Lord CockfieldMy Lords, it is one thing making the rules and the regulations, which is what we have in fact done. It is much more difficult ensuring that the rules are obeyed. The chief offenders in this respect are the airlines themselves. We are doing everything we can to persuade them to forsake the sin that does so easily beset them.
§ Baroness Burton of CoventryYes, my Lords, but does the Minister understand—I am sure he does—that the airlines themselves would welcome the Department of Trade seeing that this clause is adhered to? Does he recall that last Thursday in this House he did say that the operating permits we are discussing now make it clear that the approved fares must be charged? Will the Government see if they can help in that matter?
§ Lord CockfieldYes, my Lords. As I have said on a number of occasions in the past, we are taking every 182 measure we can to ensure that the airlines comply with their obligations, but it must necessarily be done primarily by persuasion, because many of the airlines of course are foreign airlines and they are backed by foreign Governments. If we were to take too vigorous action in this country, it would almost certainly lead to retaliation against our own airlines.
§ Baroness Burton of CoventryMy Lords, I am sorry to persist, because I am sure the Minister wishes to help. But, while we in this House think he is a very firm Minister and will stand by what he says, does he not feel that some pressure should be brought to hear on airlines (if there are any) which persistently break the clause which the Minister himself has now inserted in these permits?
§ Lord CockfieldYes, my Lords. We have in fact taken action by way of persuading airlines, where that remains the only course open to us. But it is impossible, I fear, to solve this problem completely so long as there remains a large amount of surplus capacity in the airline business. But, as the noble Baroness knows, agreement has been reached on a number of important routes to ensure compliance with the published and approved fares. That is progress, and we will continue to do our best to ensure that progress is maintained.