§ 3.17 p.m.
§ Baroness Elliot of HarwoodMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government what percentage of the United Kingdom's exports went to the European Community in 1972 and 1982 respectively.
§ Lord LyellMy Lords, in 1972, 30 per cent. of the United Kingdom's visible exports went to the European Community. In 1982, the proportion was 41 per cent.
§ Baroness Elliot of HarwoodMy Lords, I thank the noble Lord for his Answer. I hope this trend will continue, that the new policy, Food from Britain, which is based on exports, will be successful and that the Government will back it as much as they possibly can.
§ Lord LyellMy Lords, I am very grateful for the comments of my noble friend. As the House will be aware, both my noble friend and I have an interest in Food from Britain, since both of us are farmers.
§ Lord RentonMy Lords, can my noble friend say what proportion of these exports were of farm produce?
§ Lord LyellMy Lords, possibly I might be able to, from the plethora of statistics which I have with me, but it might take up three or four minutes of your Lordships' time. With permission, therefore, I shall write to my noble friend.
§ Lord BeswickMy Lords, would the noble Lord make clear that these exports were exceeded by something like £3,000 million each year by the goods we imported from the European Community?
§ Lord LyellMy Lords, I apologise to the noble Lord, but I did not hear the last part of his question.
§ Lord BeswickMy Lords, is it not a fact that the exports to which this Question refers were exceeded by some £3,000 million a year by the imports we had from other countries in the Eurpoean Community?
§ Lord LyellMy Lords, no. I am afraid that the noble Lord's statistics are some way out.
Lord ChelwoodMy Lords, is my noble friend aware that it is suggested that were we to withdraw from the Community we could quite easily make good the inevitable shortfall, which would be serious, of exports to the EEC, being outside tariff barriers, by exploiting fresh markets? Is my noble friend able to help the House, including the Labour Party, by saying where those markets are and why they are not being exploited now?
§ Lord LyellMy Lords, I am always pleased to help my noble friend and anybody else in your Lordships' House who would care to receive help. But I would stress to my noble friend and to the House that seven out of the eight major markets for the United Kingdom are in the Community. Certainly my noble friend will not need reminding that membership of the Community gives us in the United Kingdom direct access to a market of 270 million. That is five times the size of our home market and larger than the United States. And between 1972 and 1982 the value of our visible exports to the Community increased at an annual average rate of 23 per cent. compared with a mere 17 per cent. to the rest of the world.
§ Lord BeswickMy Lords, will the noble Lord, Lord Lyell, now be good enough to add to that long list of figures the actual figures for imports from the other European countries?
§ Lord LyellNot necessarily without notice, my Lords, but the noble Lord will be able to obtain such statistics from the same sources as I could.
§ Lord BeswickMy Lords, if the noble Lord, Lord Lyell, is unable to give those figures, why did he state with such certainty that the implication of my other question was wrong?
§ Lord LyellMy Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Beswick, has today taken against me something in the nature of a blunderbuss. The noble Lord has quoted 1232 masses and masses of figures. He has even quoted £3,000 million. Over which years? For which products? Excluding which statistics? Are they net or gross? We could go on discussing these figures for an endless time. The figures that I gave my noble friend were in response to his question.
§ Lord GladwynMy Lords, do the figures given by the noble Lord, Lord Lyell, in respect of 1972 and 1982 refer in both cases to the present members of the Community?
§ Lord LyellI am sorry, my Lords, I should have made that point entirely clear. The figures refer to the members of the Community as at present constituted, including Ireland, Denmark and Greece.
Lord OramMy Lords, can the noble Lord, Lord Lyell, give separate figures for exports of oil and manufactured goods? If so, do the figures for manufactured goods show as favourable a picture as the overall figures he gave in reply to the original Question?
§ Lord LyellMy Lords, we understand that in 1982 there was a surplus on trade in oil with the European Community of approximately £4½ billion. There was a corresponding deficit in our trade in manufactures with the European Community of approximately £4.3 billion. This last figure is on the balance of payments basis; what we would call "net", free on board—both imports and exports.
§ Lord Mowbray and StourtonMy Lords, to a simple layman, can my noble friend Lord Lyell say what percentage of these exports was oil and what percentage was manufactured goods?
§ Lord LyellMy Lords, I should like to write to my noble friend with those figures.
§ Lord MolloyMy Lords, will the noble Lord, Lord Lyell, also write to my noble friend Lord Beswick? Those who were following the discussion with great interest were disappointed that the noble Lord, Lord Lyell, could not give an answer to a very vital aspect of my noble friend's question relating to imports. Will the noble Lord, Lord Lyell, write to my noble friend as well?
§ Lord LyellMy Lords, I am afraid that I was totally bemused as to which of the many questions and statistics the noble Lord, Lord Beswick, put to me he required an answer. I was totally lost, but I am very pleased to hear that the noble Lord, Lord Molloy, was not.