HL Deb 21 April 1983 vol 441 cc636-7

3.5 p.m.

Lord Belhaven and Stenton

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government what action they are taking to reduce the period for which juveniles accused of serious crimes are kept in care on remand before trial.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home Office (Lord Elton)

My Lords, court staff already give priority to cases involving juveniles, particularly if they are informed that a child is being held in care pending trial.

Lord Belhaven and Stenton

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that quite reassuring reply. I wonder whether he can tell the House if there is any limit on excessive delays caused by defence counsel, and whether there is any consideration of changing the law to a restrictive period of 110 days, as I gather obtains in Scotland?

Lord Elton

My Lords, as to my noble friend's second supplementary point, the 110-day rule in Scotland does not apply to delays which arise other than from delays by the prosecution. I understand that his concern is for delays arising at the instigation of the defence. If courts are not aware that a juvenile is held in residential care in a secure unit, they cannot accord special priority to his case as they would otherwise do. It follows that the legal representatives of such juveniles should inform the courts of the circumstances in which they are held, and the Department of Health and Social Security is therefore asking social services departments to remind legal representatives of juveniles held on remand of the desirability of so doing.

Lord Wigoder

My Lords, supposing there are no legal representatives, is it not possible to ensure that the court staff are nevertheless made aware that children are being kept in care?

Lord Elton

My Lords, my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Health is aware of your Lordships' and others' anxiety about this matter. He is bringing it to the attention of the directors of social services, who, of course, would be the proper people in the case mentioned by the noble Lord.

Lord Elwyn-Jones

My Lords, can the noble Lord the Minister say how many children are now presently being kept in care on remand before trial?

Lord Elton

No, my Lords, not without notice.

Baroness Faithfull

My Lords, is my noble friend the Minister aware that complaints are unevenly made from different parts of the country? Some Crown Courts in the South of England and some in the North seem to be unable to deal very quickly with children in care on remand. Others are very good. Can he inform the House why it is that there is this uneven service?

Lord Elton

My Lords, I can only surmise; but in the cases to which my attention has been directed following my noble friend's Question it appears that delays have arisen due either to the desire of the defence to prepare a complicated case or simply to a lack of awareness on the part of the court that the child was held in that situation, which meant it could not embark on a structured régime towards rehabilitation; and we are taking such steps as we can to see that the courts are so informed.