Cruelty to Animals Legislation (Hansard, 21 April 1983)

§ Lord Molloy
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

§ Lord Elton
My Lords, the Government intend to introduce legislation to amend and update the Cruelty to Animals Act 1876 as soon as parliamentary time permits. Detailed proposals will be published shortly.

§ Lord Molloy
My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that that is an extremely welcome and encouraging Answer for which I am grateful? I am glad that I put down the Question to give him the opportunity to give the Answer. Would he not further agree that the recent paper published by the British Veterinary Association would make a sound basis for the amendments that are required to that ancient Act?

§ Lord Elton
My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord for the welcome that he gave to my Answer. I have seen the paper to which he refers, which is jointly produced by the British Veterinary Association and the Committee for the Reform of Animal Experimentation and the Fund for the Replacement of Animals in Medical Experiments. The Home Secretary was most grateful to the group for sending him their proposals. I understand that the noble Lord, Lord Houghton of Sowerby, took a large part in that. They were published last week and are being carefully studied.

§ Viscount Massereene and Ferrard
My Lords, would my noble friend agree that many of the experiments now taking place on live animals are completely out of date owing to new processes, especially those regarding tissue, where new techniques can now be used in many cases? Furthermore, regarding cosmetics—and by "cosmetics" I am referring to those concoctions which are manufactured for the beautifying of women—although I am all for the beautifying of women, is it moral to cause suffering to animals for the beautifying of women? I do not agree with that.

§ Lord Elton
My Lords, as to the use of such substitutes as tissue cultures, these are being increasingly used, but it is, I regret, necessary in many cases finally to test the effect of substances upon living animals. As to the tests on cosmetics and toiletries, they amounted to about half of 1 per cent. of all the tests made in 1981. We hope that they are kept to a minimum but they are still sometimes necessary and I believe that there is a wide understanding of this.

§ Baroness Hornsby-Smith
My Lords, would my noble friend not agree that the term "cosmetics" used in my noble friend's previous supplementary question can be very loosely used? Baby powder is a cosmetic and in many cases people who have suffered very severe burns use most deeply researched cosmetics in order to hide their unhappy scars. Would my noble friend agree that it is too easy to dismiss them as just a matter of vanity in women and not to realise their much wider implications for people who really require such products for dermatological complaints or otherwise?

§ Lord Elton
My Lords, my noble friend is absolutely right. I am sure that my other noble friend intended no discourtesy to those who do have these very serious needs.

The Earl of Halsbury
My Lords, does my noble friend agree that on eight previous occasions Government spokesmen have assured us that we have only to wait upon a favourable wind from Europe? Does his assurance that we now wait only upon favourable parliamentary opportunities make any difference to the situation?

§ Lord Elton
My Lords, we hope that the convention will be ready for submission to the Committee of Ministers by next month. Ratification by the United Kingdom will be possible only when we have a new Act on the statute book, but we are very close to the starting gate now.

The Earl of Halsbury
My Lords, that is the ninth assurance.

§ Lord Elton
My Lords, I think that it was given in rather more precise terms and I hope that the noble Earl will afford me an even greater degree of credibility than he has given to my noble friends.

§ Lord Molloy
My Lords, may I underline two points very quickly to the noble Lord? Is he aware that one of the primary concerns of the veterinary surgeons is that the places where animals are kept—and not just the laboratories—should also be subject to veterinary inspection? My last point is that there is also the concern of ordinary folk who lose pets, who know full well that they have been stolen, that there seems to be reasonable evidence as to why they have been stolen. I believe that this aspect, too, should receive consideration.

§ Lord Elton
My Lords, the noble Lord will be aware that the Theft Act 1968 already provides severe penalties for the handling of stolen animals and the Dogs Act 1906 prohibits the police from handing over strays to laboratories. Nevertheless, the noble Lord may take further assurance from the fact that controls over the supply of animals for laboratories will be introduced in our legislation.