HL Deb 20 October 1982 vol 435 cc120-2

2.57 p.m.

Lord Mackie of Benshie

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they are satisfied that they have at their disposal sufficient expert knowledge of olive oil and other Mediterranean products to enable them to participate effectively in discussion of issues relating to these products in the Council of Ministers.

Lord Sandys

My Lords, the Government have at their disposal all the information which is currently available on olive oil and other Mediterranean products. The information, on olive oil in particular, is not as complete as we would wish. We can participate in discussion of these issues in the Council of Ministers as effectively and as knowledgeably as other member states, who are in receipt of the same information.

Lord Mackie of Benshie

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his reply, which implies, as I expected, a feeling of a state of uncertainty about olive oil. While I do not know of many olive growers in Anglesey or Sussex, or even Inverness-shire, it is very important to this country in view of the contribution and the surplus which might occur. Have Her Majesty's Government any plans which might simplify the problems in front of us? For example, in Italy, I understand, twice as much money is paid out in a production subsidy as is paid in a sales subsidy, which indicates quite a gap. Perhaps it indicates that the same view of love of the state and adherence to its rules does not apply there as might apply in some northern climes. Have the Government any simpler plans for supporting this quite important industry?

Lord Sandys

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Mackie of Benshie, raises wide issues, and of course they will be to a considerable extent exacerbated on the proposed enlargement of the Community. I think perhaps in this context the noble Lord will permit me to examine what Her Majesty's Government have in mind, because increase in production and no fall in consumption is likely to take place. We believe, therefore, that the Community should seek to contain production and to limit the possibility of surpluses. With this in mind, we believe that aid based on a flat rate per olive tree would reduce the returns to be obtained by any increase in production.

Lord Mackie of Benshie

My Lords, does the Minister personally count the olive trees?

Lord Hale

My Lords, is the noble Lord the Minister aware that I have been lying in bed for months reading reports of poisoned olive oil in Italy, of international investigations almost on the line of the Seveso disaster, to which I called attention first, some eight or nine years ago, when it was run down? Is he aware that those concerned have not yet been able fully to trace how the adulterated oil gets mixed in the cheap olive oils which are being sold on the streets of Italy today?

Lord Sandys

My Lords, I am sure that the whole House will welcome the noble Lord, Lord Hale, back to his rightful place and will he much interested in the time he has spent in examining this interesting but disastrous story of the adulteration of products simulating olive oil. I fear this goes rather wider than the Question as drafted and perhaps the noble Lord will put before your Lordships a suitable Question at a later date.

Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos

My Lords, may I underline what my noble friend Lord Mackie of Benshie said. In view of the accession of Greece and the probable accession of Spain and Portugal, do the Government appreciate that there is likely to be a substantial increase in the surpluses of Mediterranean products, especially olive oil? If that takes place it will have a bad effect on the Community budget. Therefore, is it not very important that Her Majesty's Government find out quickly as much as they can about the production and marketing of olive oil so that this country will he in a position to play a full part in the future consideration of what may be a very big problem in due course?

Lord Sandys

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Cledwyn, will he very well aware that your Lordships' House is taking a great interest in this matter through the medium of Sub-Committee D of your Lordships' Committee on European Communities. Her Majesty's Government are very much aware that expenditure on price support for Mediterranean products, of which olive oil is one of the most important, has been one of the fastest growing in the Community's agricultural budget. It raises issues in this regard to which the Government will pay the closest attention.

Lord Mackie of Benshie

My Lords, will the Minister press for a quick count of the olive trees, which matter, I understand, has been hanging fire for some years?

Lord Sandys

My Lords, the noble Lord is quite right. There is indeed a particular issue here. A register is being made, known as the olive oil register. Unhappily, progress on compiling it has been slow, although our colleagues in the Community and the Council of Ministers are very anxious to see it pursued with all dispatch.

Lord Walston

My Lords, will Her Majesty's Government be prepared to instruct their agricultural attaches in the embassies in Athens, Rome and Madrid—if they have not already done so—to make a special study of this olive oil problem so that Her Majesty's Government, and particularly the Ministry of Agriculture, are as well informed as possible of all the facts in this complicated matter? That will enable them to play a full part in the discussions in Brussels.

Lord Sandys

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Walston, is right. We already receive a great deal of information from our attaches in the capitals to which he referred. Nevertheless, I will remind my right honourable friends of the issue that he has raised and will encourage further thought to be given in that regard.

Viscount Eccles

My Lords, will my noble friend remember that we eat more marmalade than any other country and if we can obtain it at a cheaper price that would be a good thing?

Lord Sandys

My Lords, I wholly agree with my noble friend.