§ 3.3 p.m.
§ Lord GainfordMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government what plans they have made to familiarise children in primary schools with the use of microcomputers.
§ Lord GlenarthurMy Lords, the micros in primary schools scheme, announced by my right honourable friend the Prime Minister in July, opened for applications on 1st October. Under this scheme, all primary schools are eligible for a 50 per cent. grant from the Department of Industry towards the purchase of one microcomputer package. The scheme will run until the end of 1984. More than 27,000 schools are eligible and so far several hundred applications have been received.
§ Lord GainfordMy Lords, I thank my noble friend the Minister for that encouraging Answer. May I ask him whether he agrees that this highly imaginative scheme shows the Government's concern that the present generation of young pupils and those who follow will receive adequate technical training?
§ Lord GlenarthurMy Lords, I quite agree with my noble friend. This scheme is a major plank in the Government's plans to help familiarise all young people with the technology which will increasingly play a major part in their daily lives and in the health of our economy. The Department of Industry's scheme is deliberately catalytic and is aimed at getting schools and teachers started. Perhaps I might usefully add that the willingness of education to respond is illustrated by the outstanding success of the similar micros scheme for secondary schools, under which more than 95 per cent. of secondary schools have obtained a microcomputer over the last 18 months.
§ Baroness DavidMy Lords, may I ask the Minister whether the resources which are being put into this scheme by the Government mean that there will be less resources for capitation, for hooks and for other equipment where already there are tremendous shortages and cutbacks? I am well aware of the £20 million which is being put in, but even so resources are very much less than they should be. Secondly, may I ask the Minister whether one microcomputer in each primary school, which can be quite large in size, will be adequate, particularly for the girls to have a chance? I am told that where there are microcomputers, very often the boys elbow out the girls. We understand that girls are getting hehindhand in some of this training, so will there be enough microcomputers for the girls to have a fair chance, too?
§ Lord GlenarthurMy Lords, so far as the first question put by the noble Baroness is concerned, no, this will not affect adversely any more cuts which have got to be made elsewhere in the system. The total cost of this package will be approximately £9 million over four years. So far as the second question asked by the 823 noble Baroness is concerned, I am sure everybody will do their best to make sure that girls have an equal opportunity to work the microcomputers. It might be interesting for the noble Baroness to know that it has been suggested that the average age of computer programmers in this country is as low as 14 years. I hope that is some indication to the noble Baroness that not only boys are involved.
§ Lord Davies of LeekMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware that some of us are growing very worried about the attitude today of young children in schools? It appears that education in England, Wales and Scotland is in no way so good now as it is on the Continent. Books, culture and the art of living come before managing, like a robotic, a microcomputer. There should be fewer children in classes. Then they would be taught better. That is what should happen before Her Majesty's Inspectorate criticise the quality of teaching, they themselves never having done any. We should have a better system of society if we forgot the microcomputer for a moment and learned the elegance of living.
§ Lord GlenarthurMy Lords, I think that question goes slightly wide of the original Question, which was restricted to microcomputers.
§ Lord LeatherlandMy Lords, can the noble Lord the Minister give us an assurance that children in schools will still be taught addition, subtraction, multiplication and division, or is that going out of date?
§ Lord GlenarthurNo, my Lords, that is certainly not going out of date and will be included. I read a phrase the other day, which the noble Lord might also have read, concerning computer literacy. There is no doubt that over the next few years as this technological advance continues to grow computer literacy will be a very important part of all young people's education.
§ Lord Wynne-JonesMy Lords, when the noble Lord the Minister says that the Government hope that girls will get equal opportunities, does he not realise that in actual fact they never get equal opportunities on the science side? Is it not time that the Government began to take some positive action in this matter rather than to leave it to the whims of private enterprise in the schools?
§ Lord GlenarthurMy Lords, I am sure that the Department of Education, teachers and all those responsible for passing on this kind of information to young children will take note of what the noble Lord has said.
§ Lord HankeyMy Lords, are the Government aware that in some areas at least quite a number of people are buying microcomputers and that the children have considerably less difficulty with these than some of the grown-ups?
§ Lord GlenarthurExactly, my Lords. In many instances I believe it is the case that teachers are learning from children, rather than the other way round.