HL Deb 14 May 1982 vol 430 cc437-9

12.28 p.m.

Earl Ferrers rose to move, That the draft scheme laid before the House on 1st April be approved.

The noble Earl said: My Lords, this is a straightforward measure, the purpose of which is to provide specific authority, under domestic legislation, for the payments which Community regulations allow member states to make to recognised fish producers' organisations in their early years in order to encourage their formation and to facilitate their operation.

Community regulations in the fisheries sector provide for fishermen coming together and setting up producer organisations with a view to achieving more orderly marketing of their landings. If producer organisations decide to adopt the Community's market support prices, they can quality for financial compensation from FEOGA, which is available only to fishermen who are members of producer organisations and not to those-who are not. This compensation is paid by the Community for fish which cannot be sold on the human consumption market at or above the appropriate Community withdrawal price and which has, in consequence, to be withdrawn from the market. The need to seek approval for the present measure arises from a change in the legal view on the authority for making these payments. Perhaps I should explain the situation.

Community regulations, which have direct effect in United Kingdom law, can provide for two kinds of expenditure. Some regulations provide that certain payments must be made in certain circumstances; other regulations provide that member states may make certain payments. It is quite clear that, if an EEC regulation requires a payment to be made, Section 2(3)(a) of the European Communities Act 1972 applies to make it unnecessary to ask Parliament for powers to pay. In the early days of our membership of the Community the view was taken that the 1972 Act covered both a requirement to pay and a discretion to pay when contained in an EEC regulation. However, more recent legal advice, based on more experience of Community law, is that the Government should rest upon more specific parliamentary authority for making discretionary payments. Fisheries Ministers, therefore, felt bound to seek such powers from Parliament to put beyond any doubt their authority to make the payments to producer organisations, which have been provided for in the department's estimates.

The Instrument has been made under the powers contained in Section 15 of the Fisheries Act 1981, which allows the Fisheries Ministers, with the approval of the Treasury, to make grants to fishermen. It is a straightforward expression of the principal criteria which are contained in the relevant Community regulations which govern the calculation of the grant. It applies to the United Kingdom, and 50 per cent. of the payments which are made may be recovered from the Guidance Section of the European Agricultural Guidance and Guarantee Fund.

It is the Government's view that well-organised and effective producers' organisations can play an important and beneficial role in the marketing of fish. Indeed successive Governments have encouraged their formation, and I am glad to say that there are now producers' organisations covering by far the largest part of our coastline. The order will provide for payments of formation grants to those organisations which have been recently formed and to those which may be formed in the future, and I commend the order for your Lordships' approval. My Lords, I beg to move.

Moved, That the draft scheme laid before the House on 1st April be approved.—(Earl Ferrers.)

Lord Bishopston

My Lords, I thank the Minister of State for his explanation of the order, and I welcome the draft scheme, which will be of continuing help to the fishing industry. We appreciate also the backing of the EEC in respect of, I think, 50 per cent. of the expenditure incurred by member states being reimbursed by FEOGA. The fish producers' organisations play an important role in the national marketing of fisheries products and in the implementation of common marketing standards, and of course they need all the backing that can be given by Her Majesty's Government and by the Community.

The Minister of State will be aware that the FPOs must be a viable entity within the terms of national legislation and must have—and I think this is important—"sufficient economic activity". Among other factors, there is the need to ensure a common fisheries policy which will give reasonable access to United Kingdom fishermen to fish in what we would call our own waters. As we know, the fishing industry has undergone great difficulties in recent years, due to the loss of distant fishing grounds, to having to share with the Community fish which is predominantly within the United Kingdom 200-mile limits, and to the inevitable restrictions of conservation.

We rarely get the chance to debate this important industry in your Lordships' House, and while I do not wish to widen the scale of the debate on this occasion, should like the Minister to say, if he will—very briefly, if possible—what is the state of play about getting a reasonable settlement of the common fisheries policy. Over the years when I had some responsibility for such matters in the other place, and in the period since then, negotiations have gone on, and I am sure that much help will come from the certainty that we shall have a reasonable settlement very soon. As the Minister of State will agree, the United Kingdom fishermen have the right to expect the chance to make what one might call a net return and indeed a net profit. With those few words, and one question, I support the order, and I know that it will be of great help to the industry.

Earl Ferrers

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Bishopston, for the welcome that he has given to this modest order. It is perfectly true that the fishing industry has gone through a very difficult period, and I am sure that the noble Lord will readily realise that during those difficulties, as well as during the economic difficulties which the whole world is going through, the Government have been the first to support fairly well, in fact very well, the fishing industry, and £42 million has been given in special aid over the last two years to the industry. That is a measure of our determination to see that the fishing industry will have a viable future in the changed circumstances in which it finds itself.

The noble Lord referred to the common fisheries policy. He said, quite rightly, that he did not wish to debate this now, but he naturally expressed anxiety and asked what possibilities did one see for a common fisheries policy coming into operation in the future. It would be imprudent of me to forecast with any degree of accuracy any length of time over which a settlement might be expected, but I can tell the noble Lord that we hope to make further progress at the next council of fisheries Minsters. The date of the meeting has not been fixed, but it is likely to take place in early June, and it is expected that the Commission will then produce new proposals on access, total allowable catches, and quotas, and all these matters will be discussed. The noble Lord will understand that that is as far as I can go. The matters will be discussed; whether there will be agreement after the discussion, I cannot tell him, but I would hope so, as I know he would. I can assure the noble Lord that the Government remain determined to obtain a satisfactory revised common fisheries policy as soon as possible.

On Question, Motion agreed to.