HL Deb 17 March 1982 vol 428 cc645-8

2.55 p.m.

Lord Airedale

My Lords. I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they subscribe to the view that a society which allows cigarettes to be advertised is plainly not one which is strenuously trying to discourage people from smoking them.

Lord Elton

No, my Lords. We are committed to doing all we can to reduce the amount of cigarette smoking and hence the death and disease associated with it. But there is no clear evidence that a ban on cigarette advertising would lead to such a decline. As for discouraging smoking, I would remind noble Lords that the Government are making available over £2 million in the forthcoming financial year for the Health Education Council to spend on anti-smoking measures mainly directed at young people.

Lord Airedale

My Lords, may we be told what is the present state of play in the long-standing discussions that go on between the Government and the industry regarding cigarette advertising?

Lord Elton

My Lords, on the specific area of sport sponsorship, which is an important area of promotion, the main advance is that all media advertising for sponsored sporting activities, and most promotional signs at meetings where these take place, will carry the Government health warning in exactly the same way as cigarette advertisements do, so that the advertisers are actually paying for the Government advertising. In addition, the industry have agreed not to sponsor activities in which the majority of participants are under 18. Furthermore, no sports which have not already been sponsored by industry will now be sponsored without Government agreement.

Lord Blyton

My Lords, is the Minister aware that there need not be any worry about advertising against smoking? The Chancellor of the Exchequer has already done that with his high taxation on tobacco and now people have consumer resistance, and therefore people will not smoke. So there is no worry about advertising against cigarette smoking.

Lord Elton

My Lords, nonetheless, the Government must take a position on this matter.

Lord Glenkinglas

My Lords, will my noble friend bear in mind that in a free society it is probably undesirable for a Government to control advertising?

Lord Elton

My Lords, as the noble Lord will have observed, we are seeking to proceed by agreement.

Baroness Jeger

My Lords, is it not inconsistent of the Government to forbid straightforward cigarette advertising on television but to allow the indirect advertisements which appear as the backdrop to every sponsored sporting campaign? If the Government thinks advertising does not make any difference, why not lift the whole ban?

Lord Elton

My Lords, as I was at pains to explain a moment ago, the backdrop in future will carry in almost every case the Government's warning at the expense of the advertiser.

Baroness Birk

My Lords, may I say as a one-time chairman of the Health Education Council that I am glad as always to hear the Government are putting money into it. It seems an odd situation, for it is a drop in the ocean—will he not agree?—compared with what the advertising companies are spending on advertising. In view of that fact, is it not true that his answer to the noble Lord, Lord Airedale, should have been that the Government do not subscribe to the view that they are trying strenuously to discourage people from smoking because they are supporting advertising? At least be honest about it.

Lord Elton

My Lords, things are not so simple as the noble Baroness supposes. If I may use figures to demonstrate, in 1974 in this country 51 per cent. of men smoked cigarettes. By 1980 that figure was 42 per cent. It is very difficult to make comparisons internationally; but in Norway where advertising was banned in 1975—which is what the noble Baroness would have us do—the percentage of men smoking dropped from 52 per cent. to 42 per cent. over the same period. That is the same period—almost exactly the same decline; a total ban on advertising in one country and agreements in this country with no difference in the result.

Lord Mackie of Benshie

My Lords, will the Minister advise the cigarette industry that they are wasting their money by advertising?

Lord Elton

My Lords, I would not seek to advise anybody how to run their own show. I would say, however, that advertising companies are very anxious to persuade consumers of another brand to transfer to their own. That is what a lot of this is about.

Lord Paget of Northampton

My Lords, I know—

Viscount St. Davids

My Lords—

Lord Paget of Northampton

—we have problems in Government—

Several noble Lords

Order!

The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Baroness Young)

My Lords, I am sure that the House would wish to have questions from both noble Lords who are at present standing. Perhaps we could have the question from the noble Lord, Lord Paget, and then the question from the noble Viscount, Lord St. Davids.

Lord Paget of Northampton

My Lords, we know that Governments have to deal in pros and cons, but I wonder whether the Minister can answer yes or no to this question. Are the Government in favour of more jobs or fewer jobs in Imperial Tobacco Company factories?

Lord Elton

My Lords, the Government are, of course, in favour of greater employment opportunities throughout the country, and welcome any efforts which companies can make to diversify into fields in which they are able to excel.

Viscount St. Davids

My Lords, will the noble Lord explain what appears, on the face of it, to be rather inconsistent? The Government are saying that advertising has no effect and, therefore, they are not stopping the tobacco companies from advertising. At the same time, they are themselves putting on an advertising campaign. Are they suggesting that that campaign will have no effect?

Lord Elton

No, my Lords. I am not saying that advertising has no effect. What I am saying is that it is doubtful how great is the effect of advertising on consumption as a whole. If you look at foreign examples, it does not appear to be great. It has a considerable effect, I am given to understand, on which brand people smoke. If we can use the battle between the companies, as to who shall smoke more of their brand, as an opportunity for advertising the fact that people ought to give up smoking, as I did when I reached 40 a day, I think that that is not inconsistent.

Lord Wells-Pestell

My Lords, may I ask the noble Lord the Minister, having regard to the fact that advertisements at sports functions are limited in size, and must be, whether the Government will take steps to see that the warning is of a size that people can read?

Lord Elton

My Lords, I will certainly take that to my honourable friend with that responsibility as a practical and sensible suggestion.

Lord Kaldor

My Lords, does the Minister agree that if rival companies advertise in equal measure, the pull exerted by one company is cancelled by the opposite pull exerted by the other?

Lord Elton

My Lords, the noble Lord has expressed much more elegantly than I could, or indeed have, one of the elementary factors in this situation.

Lord Leatherland

My Lords, does the Minister agree that the only way to get smoking reduced is through the will-power of people themselves?

Lord Elton

My Lords, if we can reinforce that will-power, I think it will be a good thing.