HL Deb 01 March 1982 vol 427 cc1110-2

2.40 p.m.

Baroness Jeger

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government why the Department of Experimental Chemical Pathology at the Westminster Hospital Medical School is to close; what will be the saving to public funds; and what alternative arrangements are being made to maintain its services in the interests of its patients.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health and Social Security (Lord Elton)

My Lords, I understand that the department to which the noble Baroness refers is not now to close. Although the Westminster Hospital Medical School had decided to withdraw funding from the department, saving about £30,000 a year as a result, funding from private sources has been obtained which will allow the department and the research programme to continue until at least March 1983. The department's commitment to patient services at the Westminster Children's Hospital will continue, as before, to be funded under the National Health Service.

Baroness Jeger

My Lords, although we are all grateful to know that the department have obtained sufficient funds to carry on for one year, does not the noble Lord the Minister agree that it is absolutely impossible to continue sophisticated, highly-specialised research in a unit which has taken 16 years to set up, on the basis of one year's expectation of life? Will he not look at this again and appreciate the point of view of the staff in this matter? I noticed that the noble Lord the Minister himself referred to only one year. On the continuation of the work, may I point out to the noble Lord the Minister—

Several noble Lords

No!

Baroness Jeger

My Lords, may I ask the noble Lord the Minister whether he is aware that this department has a great international reputation, that it works for patients from all over the world, and 90 per cent. of the work on vitamin B.12 comes from patients outside the hospital, many from outside this country? Is the Minister satisfied—

Several noble Lords

Oh!

Baroness Jeger

Is the Minister aware of how many lives are to be put at risk for the sake of £30,000 a year?

Lord Elton

My Lords, I am not certain I can answer all those supplementaries at once. I should first point out that in fact the whole of medical research started with private finance and there is nothing dis-honourable in private finance assisting a continuing part of it.

Secondly, I should point out that the Government did not withdraw funds from the department. Government funding of the department's service commitment through the National Health Service started 10 years ago and is currently running at about £80,000 a year. There is no proposal to discontinue that. It covers the normal pathological work done by the department for the Westminster Children's Hospital. Perhaps the noble Baroness should be reminded that the other funds start from the Government and go to the University Grants Committee; from there they go to the universities and, in particular, London University; from there they go to the constituent parts of the university and, in particular, the Westminster Hospital Medical School. From there they go to various departments, including the department the noble Baroness is interested in, and it really is for the medical school to decide its priorities.

It is also quite correct that the university should review from time to time its priorities on research because events change the need for priorities. Research is going on elsewhere into vitamin B.12 deficiency and there are plenty of National Health Service hospitals quite capable of doing the diagnostic pathological services which lie at the heart of the matter.

Lord Molloy

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that, prior to the National Health Service, the whole question of private medical research was hampered tremendously because of the lack of organisation and the lack of funds?—in short, it was hit or miss. Is he also aware that, in the case of the Westminster Hospital, the really dedicated men and women there feel terribly unhappy that their lease of life might be 12 months at the outside? Is this not merely an absurdity but also a disgraceful threat to the dedicated men and women working in research in this field?

Lord Elton

My Lords, it is not unusual for a programme of research to run over a limited time. The Medical Research Council acknowledges this by making many of its grants for a limited five-year duration. As to the 12 months' funding at present in view, this will no doubt be used by the institution in question to see whether the programme is worth extending further and, if it is, how much it should be extended further.

Baroness Jeger

My Lords, the noble Lord the Minister kindly told me that there were other National Health Service hospitals where this work was being carried out. Is he aware that the general information is that this is an unique piece of research concerning pernicious anaemia, some forms of blindness and cancer? Will he tell the House where else this work is being carried on?

Lord Elton

My Lords, there are three other centres which can provide excellent cover for any detailed work required in this field. I am given to understand that St. Bartholomew's, the Royal Free and Northwick Park Hospitals may be cited in this connection.

As to the first part of the noble Baroness's response, it is a very highly specialised area indeed which is being examined, within the area of vitamin B.12 deficiency. It is certainly true that references are made there from elsewhere in the world, but the numbers are not so enormous as I think the noble Baroness fears. I cannot quantify them. The point I am most anxious to make is that the future of this research has been guaranteed for a further 12 months, which is a matter of satisfaction to those who feel that it is very important; and those 12 months can be put to good use.