HL Deb 11 June 1982 vol 431 cc404-6

11.16 a.m.

Lord Wigoder

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they are satisfied that existing or proposed legislation is adequate to deal with the problems caused by the sale or rental of hard porn and horror video-cassettes.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home Office (Lord Elton)

My Lords, existing legislation relating to obscene publications and indecent displays applies equally to material contained in video-cassettes as it does to other forms of publication or display. As to proposed legislation, the Cinematograph (Amendment) Bill would apply to the exhibition for private gain of video films, and the Local Government (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill would enable local authorities to exercise control over the numbers of shops dealing to a signficant degree in pornographic material. That of course would include such material contained in video-cassettes. The Government have at present no plans for further legislation, but we will keep the operation of the law under close review, particularly in relation to material involving horror or violence.

Lord Wigoder

My Lords, while thanking the noble Lord for that Answer, may I ask whether he would not agree that there are three particular problems which lead to the view that neither the present nor the proposed legislation is adequate, the first problem being that the material, by its very nature, is not immediately identifiable so that police officers entering premises do not know what it is that is there to be seized; the second problem being that this material can be shown to young people without any control under either the present or the proposed legislation; the third problem being that the depraving effect of this appalling rubbish is enhanced in the home by the facilities that are available there for the particularly nauseating bits to be played and replayed at will?

Lord Elton

My Lords, I accept that the medium we are looking at now is different in kind and intensity of effect from the traditional sort of pornographic material which was available in the noble Lord's youth and my own. It poses particular difficulties. The noble Lord will be aware of the lack of agreement that there is in general on the control of this difficult area and may take courage from the voluntary approach now being looked at by a working party which has been set up by the British Board of Film Censors and the British Videogram Association, with the intention of setting up some kind of certification scheme similar to that used in the film industry.

Lord Boston of Faversham

My Lords, would the noble Lord the Minister bear in mind that there is growing and widespread concern about the matter? While the Minister has clearly indicated to the House the current state of legislation, it does not quite go so far as I think the noble Lord, Lord Wigoder, had in mind; namely, whether the Minister is satisfied that those measures which he has mentioned to the House this morning are adequate to deal with the very problems which he has indicated. Can he go a stage further so far as the interesting point about classification which he mentioned is concerned and say whether the Government will give very serious consideration to it? Perhaps he would also bear in mind the need to deal with the problem of video-cassette piracy, which is not unconnected with these matters.

Lord Elton

My Lords, as to the first part of the noble Lord's question, the system of classification—if it involves a voluntary sense—is a very good answer in part to the problem. Under the provisions of the Local Government (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill as it left your Lordships' House, it will be open to licensing authorities to require shops to indicate the classification given by such a body to the material which they sell. As to the noble Lord's second question, I regret that for the moment it escapes me. Could he remind me what it was?

Lord Boston of Faversham

The second part of my question concerned the question of video cassette piracy and the need to bear that in mind.

Lord Elton

My Lords, perhaps it escaped me because it is a little far from what we are discussing at the moment. What we are now looking at is the nature of the stuff on the tapes, or discs as they may later be, when they are sold. Questions of copyright and so on are outside the brief for which I have prepared myself on this occasion, because they do not relate to the original Question.

Lord Kennet

My Lords, can the Government tell us whether any of the existing obscenity laws affects cable television and, if not, whether the Government have any proposals to legislate on that matter?

Lord Elton

My Lords, although that is a related question, I regret that I shall have to write to the noble Lord, Lord Kennet, and give my answer.

Lord Leatherland

My Lords, can the noble Lord the Minister explain to me, in view of my maidenly innocence, what is meant by the expression "hard core" in this Question'?

Lord Elton

My Lords, if the noble Lord's innocence is so maidenly at his stage in life, I am afraid that my explanation might shock him.

Lord Sudeley

My Lords, is the Minister aware that children under the age of 16 can obtain X certificate films, and does he think there might be some advantage in amending the Children and Young Persons (Harmful Publications) Act in order to include video-cassettes?

Lord Elton

My Lords, I think that I have gone as far as I can in saying that I believe we should proceed at present along the voluntary path and see how it works. We shall look at this very closely in the context of two pieces of legislation which are currently going through this Parliament.