Civil Defence: Definition (Hansard, 21 July 1982)

§ The Earl of Cork and Orrery
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, civil defence is a matter of emergency planning. Such planning involves being prepared to deal with the effects of major emergencies, accidents and natural disasters in peace and war.

§ The Earl of Cork and Orrery
My Lords, I am most grateful to my noble friend for that admirable definition. Is she aware—if she was not aware five minutes ago I think that she must be aware now—that there are persons who aver that civil defence is a waste of 851 money because it cannot provide protection against full-scale nuclear attack? Would she agree that this attitude is almost perfectly analogous to a belief or a statement that it is a waste of money to buy an umbrella because umbrellas cannot keep out thunderbolts?

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, yes, I would agree with what my noble friend has said.

§ Lord Davies of Leek
My Lords, is the noble Baroness aware—bringing in the definition of civil defence which she has now given—that it may be a worthy thing, whatever we think of war, to pay a tribute to organisations like the St. John Ambulance Brigade, and to ask schools to train people more than ever in first aid? Because, in view of the incidents that take place in this violent world on football fields and with bands being blown up, it may be that a life can be saved by the elementary knowledge of how to stop a damaged artery bleeding a man to death?

§ Baroness Young
Yes, my Lords. In peacetime certainly voluntary organisations participate in training exercises and to some extent in planning in civil defence. This applies particularly to volunteer scientific advisers and members of the Royal Observer Corps. Established organisations such as the British Red Cross, the St. John Ambulance Brigade and the Women's Royal Voluntary Service have all made valuable contributions to civil defence planning and training in their areas, and I would like to pay tribute to all the work they do.

§ Lord Mottistone
My Lords, would my noble friend the Leader of the House not agree, as regards those county councils who are backward because they have been misled into concentrating civil defence in the nuclear area, that it would be in the interests of the country if the Government were to emphasise to them the very definition which my noble friend gave in answer to this Question; to point out to them that they really are barking up the wrong tree, and that it is time they got away from this type of mythical position that they have adopted and became practical in the interests of all the people in the country, including their own ratepayers?

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, I hope that not only this Question and Answer session, but the debate initiated by my noble friend a short time ago on civil defence, will help to draw to the attention of the country the importance of civil defence. I think that it is a matter of responsibility for all of us in public life to try to explain to people the value of civil defence and the good effects of taking sensible precautions, both by the Government and by individuals.

§ Lord Jenkins of Putney
But, my Lords, is not the noble Baroness aware that it is the Government who are concentrating civil defence upon nuclear war and creating the reaction that has been mentioned? Can the noble Baroness say, however, whether it is scientifi- 852 cally the case that if one raises an umbrella in a storm, one is likely to get struck by lightning?

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, the metaphor of my noble friend may not have been exact. However, I really do think that if we are talking about a serious subject there is a lot to be said for encouraging individual responsibility in matters of civil defence precautions as in other matters.

§ Lord Renton
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that the people who would rejoice most if we completely abandoned civil defence, as has been suggested, would be the men in the Kremlin?

§ Baroness Young
Yes, my Lords.

§ Lord Peart
My Lords, may I say that the Opposition endorse exactly what the noble Baroness has said. We believe that we must have adequate defence and we will play our part.

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, I think that the whole House will be most encouraged to hear what the noble Lord the Leader of the Opposition has said on this matter, and I hope that he will bring his great influence to bear on some of the Labour-controlled local authorities.