HL Deb 17 February 1982 vol 427 c560

2.50 p.m.

Lord Shinwell

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask the Leader of the House whether the facilities available to the political groups in this House can be claimed by other Peers in the event of another group being formed.

The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Baroness Young)

My Lords, it is not for me as Leader of the House to say when a group can call itself a political group. With respect, the noble Lord's Question is a hypothetical one, but I am delighted, though in no way surprised, to hear that the noble Lord is considering forming his own party in your Lordships' House.

Lord Shinwell

I am grateful to the noble Baroness for that reply, my Lords, although it does not satisfy me. Is she aware that my purpose in framing the Question was not to complain about any other group forming a group if they so desire? What I wanted to know was this: If I wanted to form a group—perhaps not a Gang of Four but a Gang of Two, for example to revive the Independent Labour Party of old times, how would I go about it? To whom would I apply? Would I apply to the noble Baroness or to the Government? And if I were to apply, what would be the likely response? Would the noble Baroness tell me what facilities would be available to me? If facilities are to be conceded to some of my colleagues in the House, wherever they may sit—behind me, in front of me or to my left or right—surely I, as a Member of your Lordships' House, am entitled to equality (this being a House of democracy and equality)? So would the noble Baroness agree that what is available to other noble Lords should be available to me?

Baroness Young

My Lords, I assure the noble Lord that I should always be delighted to have a talk with him on any subject, but he is far too clever a man to need my advice on how to form a party.

Lord Shinwell

I am really confounded, my Lords, and I hardly know how to respond to that. May I ask the noble Baroness at least to tell me this: Should I have the idea, the notion, the concept, of forming a group, along with other Members of your Lordships' House, from wherever they may come, how do I go about it? There is nothing hypothetical about that; I really want the information.

Baroness Young

I should have thought the noble Lord had already made a very good start, my Lords.

Lord Shinwell

Really?