HL Deb 17 February 1982 vol 427 cc558-9

2.44 p.m.

Lord Brockway

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government what progress has been made by the Geneva Committee set up by the United Nations Special Assembly to implement the recommendations for world disarmament to be reported to the renewed Assembly in May and June this year.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Trefgarne)

My Lords, the Committee on Disarmament meeting in Geneva has been considering a comprehensive programme of disarmament to put before the United Nations Second Special Session on Disarmament, which meets in June this year. Much remains to be done if differences of viewpoints are to be resolved before the Special Session. As a contribution to the work of the committee, the Government, with four other Governments, tabled a draft programme of comprehensive disarmament. We shall do our best, in the committee and elsewhere, to enable the Second Special Session to act successfully as a spur and stimulus to negotiations on arms control and disarmament.

Lord Brockway

My Lords, while giving a reasonable welcome to the less rigid attitude of the British representation on the committee, may I ask whether the Government will take into account the fact that the Committee of 21 Unaligned Nations have now applied the principle of the proposal submitted by the World Disarmament Campaign and have tabled a four-stage plan for comprehensive disarmament? Is the noble Lord aware that the Soviet Union and the East European nations have now accepted the basis of this plan, thus providing a large majority on the committee? In view of this, will the Government seek a consensus of opinion within the framework of that plan?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, the noble Lord will not be surprised if I tell him that we prefer the plan to which we ourselves subscribed, which lays down, or suggests, a more step-by-step approach to comprehensive disarmament than the one proposed by the Group of 21 to which the noble Lord also referred. It is perhaps worth repeating that the Government view—a view to which successive British Governments have subscribed—is that a comprehensive, total, all-embracing plan for world disarmament is perhaps unduly optimistic in the present climate of international affairs generally, and a more step-by-step approach by which we try to solve the problems one by one is more likely to achieve success in the long run.

Lord Avebury

My Lords, has the noble Lord seen reports appearing in this morning's papers of the use of chemical weapons by the Ethiopians, backed by the Soviet Union, in Eritrea, the warnings of which have been given to the Foreign Office over the past 18 months? Could not steps be taken to raise this matter immediately within the United Nations, and within the framework of the World Disarmament Conference, as a violation of the rules of war to which every civilised nation subscribes?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, as the noble Lord will know, there is a working party concerned with the use of chemical weapons, under the auspices of the Committee on Disarmament in Geneva, and we have indeed made important contributions to the working of that particular discussion group. We certainly share the general world abhorrence towards these weapons, but we have to have regard to the fact that some of our potential opponents possess these weapons and we must organise our affairs accordingly.

Lord Peart

My Lords, will the noble Lord say what progress has been made regarding the SALT talks, which are important and indeed on which the Government said that they would keep the House informed? What is the position?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, the position is that we hope that the START talks, as they are now called—the noble Lord will know that they have been rechristened in recent months, and I think rightly so—are likely to recommence during the course of the next few months, but a date has not yet been set.

Lord Jenkins of Putney

My Lords, reverting to Geneva, will the Government see whether it is possible to obtain some compromise position between the plan which they support and that proposed by the 21 nations, so that the talks do not bog down in an irreconcilable position between the two groups?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, the British Government will certainly always be willing to listen to proposals which are designed to lead to a consensus view on these matters, but in the end we have to have regard to the necessary fact that we must not allow our position to be degraded in terms of world security generally.

Lord Brockway

My Lords, may I ask another question about what is happening at Geneva? What is the policy of Her Majesty's Government on the proposal for a comprehensive test ban in view of the fact that the United States has recently denied the value of negotiations on an underground nuclear test?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, I did not quite hear the last part of the noble Lord's supplementary, but the Government will certainly continue to seek progress on test ban issues. The Americans have said that the trilateral comprehensive test ban negotiations are unlikely to resume. The Government understand the reasons for the United States decision, but we shall certainly continue to seek ways of moving things forward.