European Community Development Policy (Hansard, 6 December 1982)

Lord Oram
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

§ Lord Skelmersdale
My Lords, the Government welcomed the memorandum as a useful basis for discussion of Community development policy. We supported those ideas aimed at improving the quality and effectiveness of Community aid, but expressed reservations about certain ideas, principally those which implied a substantial shift in the balance of aid expenditure from bilateral aid to the Community aid programme.

Lord Oram
My Lords, while thanking the Minister for his Answer, may I ask whether it is not the case that the Minister representing Her Majesty's Government put forward a rather negative point of view when he suggested that we should not raise the expectations of the developing countries? Is it not the case that Mr. Pisani's paper not only presents very clearly the deteriorating position of the poorest countries in the world but puts forward constructive proposals for extending the Lomé Convention both in time—indeed, without a time limit—and geographically? That being so, was not an opportunity missed to back up the Commission's progressive views? Would it not have been much better if our Minister, and other Government Ministers, had taken a much more positive line?

§ Lord Skelmersdale
My Lords, I believe that the noble Lord, Lord Oram, is referring to a small article which appeared a few days ago in The Times. The media always like instant action upon anything which is discussed in the EEC, but in this case that is simply not practicable. My honourable friend was rightly cautious after the Council meeting, because this is a very substantial document which runs to more than 50 pages and covers a wide range of aid, trade and economic issues. Only a selection of the more important ideas were discussed at the Development Council on 8th November and, more recently, at the Foreign Affairs Council on 22nd and 23rd November. Further consideration of the issues will continue well into the New Year. I quite agree with the noble Lord that one of Mr. Pisani's points is that there should be more emphasis on the poorest countries. I am happy to say the Government consider that Mr. Pisani produced a very good analysis of why aid has not always gone to the poorest—either inside the countries or to the poorest countries themselves. So far as the reconstitution of the Lomé Convention is concerned, that convention is running in parallel with Mr. Pisani's memorandum. Until the memorandum is fully discussed it will be difficult to see what bearing, if any, it will have on the renegotiations.

§ Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos
My Lords, will the noble Lord ensure that one of the anomalies considered during the next few weeks in the discussions to which the noble Lord referred is the enormous surpluses produced by the Community? For example, millions of tonnes of fish are dumped in the sea and food fit for human consumption is converted into animal feed. 8 Does not the Minister consider this to be scandalous when millions of our fellow men are living below subsistence level?

§ Lord Skelmersdale
My Lords, it is unfortunately not the case that the various surpluses to which the noble Lord referred are the most cost effective way of giving food aid. Around two-fifths of Community aid is already in the form of food, most of which comes from Community surplus stocks. We would not wish this form of aid to be increased. It is not a good idea to base food aid on the back of surplus disposals, which is the idea that the noble Lord has in mind. Often the Community cannot supply appropriate types of food, and often there is a double effect by spending money upon buying food from one neighbouring country in order to supply another which is actually in need.

§ Lord Hatch of Lusby
My Lords, in answering my noble friend Lord Oram the noble Lord spoke of an article in The Times and suggested that the media want instant action. Would not the noble Lord agree that it is action which we are asking for, without the adjective? The Pisani document has been discussed, as the noble Lord said, twice in November: first by the Council of Ministers and then by the Foreign Ministers. The noble Lord says that it will be discussed in the New Year. Is the noble Lord able to say by whom the document will be discussed, and when?

§ Lord Skelmersdale
My Lords, I said that it would be discussed well into the New Year, which means that it will probably take up to June. It will be discussed in the Foreign Affairs Council and also in the Development Council, both of which I understand meet every month. Furthermore, this is a long and complicated document. Action, I am quite sure, will follow—but neither instant nor immediate.

§ Lord John-Mackie
My Lords, if I may refer to the reply which the noble Lord gave to my noble friend Lord Cledwyn of Penhros, we all know that there are difficulties and that they create distortion in the trade in some of the countries to which food aid is given. We hope, however, that these difficulties will not be used as an excuse for stopping that aid or not doing our best to get it to the right places at the right time.

§ Lord Skelmersdale
My Lords, indeed it will not. The object of the exercise, in the Government's mind, is to make existing aid more effective.

Lord Oram
My Lords, is not the important point the attitude which Her Majesty's Government are to take in the forthcoming discussions to which the Minister has referred? Is it not the case that both under the leadership of Monsieur Cheysson, who is now France's Foreign Affairs Minister, and under the present leadership of Mr. Pisani, the Commission takes a much more forthright and progressive attitude towards aid and development matters than either this Government or some other member Governments? Ought not the Government to take this opportunity to change their attitude and be more forward looking?

§ Lord Skelmersdale
My Lords, the Government's attitude on all EEC affairs is always to be as positive as they can be without damaging the intrinsic interests of this country. This we shall continue to do.