Consumers and Nationalised Industries (Hansard, 22 October 1981)

§ Baroness Burton of Coventry
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

§ Lord Lyell
My Lords, on 22nd July my noble friend Lord Trefgarne told the noble Baroness that a statement would be made as soon as possible. For the time being I have nothing to add to that.

§ Baroness Burton of Coventry
My Lords, without any disrespect to the noble Lord, would he not agree that such an Answer after 13 months of delay and avoidance is really not worth while spending any further time on today, so may I therefore ask him a related question concerning Government, consumers and the nationalised industries? Can the noble Lord tell the House why it was not possible to repeat in this House a Statement on Gas and Oil Industries made in another place on Monday? While accepting that procedure in another place is the responsibility of another place, does the Minister realise that what occurred on Monday was that a Statement was made in the guise of answering an ordinary oral Question and that as a consequence this House was prevented from hearing a Statement of fundamental importance? Does the Minister or the Leader of the House feel able to comment on the matter?

§ The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Baroness Young)
My Lords, while the supplementary question put by the noble Baroness, which she has suggested I might answer as Leader of the House, is perhaps a little wide of her Question on the Order Paper, I am grateful to her for having given me notice of her intention to raise the point and giving me an opportunity to comment on it. The Government did arrange for a Written Question to be answered on Monday of this week, setting out in Hansard the announcement made in another place on the British Gas Corporation by my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Energy. Unfortunately, this Written Question did not appear in print until Wednesday morning because the House sat too late on Monday for a full Hansard to appear on Tuesday. The fact is that the announcement was made by way of an answer to an oral Question in another place. As the noble Baroness knows, procedures in another place are of course a matter for another place, and 838 the House will know that there is no procedure in your Lordships' House for repeating an answer to an oral Question—and indeed the need does not normally arise.
In the circumstances, I do not see what procedure the House could have used on Monday other than to repeat the Answer by way of a Written Answer. But I should like to say to the House that I do appreciate that it was deprived of an opportunity to air this very important matter, and I give an assurance to the House that I will consult my right honourable friends in another place and I very much hope that we can avoid a repetition of this difficulty.

§ Baroness Burton of Coventry
My Lords, I am most grateful to the noble Baroness.

§ Lord Hale
My Lords, does the noble Baroness recall that, when the Coal Bill was introduced in what was in fact our temporary other place, a galaxy of genial Ministers congratulated those of us who were interested in the coal industry on the fact that a new era had come; that the Bill foreshadowed a revolution in the industry, in the right direction, for once? Since then there has been a massive silence, threats of a strike and unhappy Tory Ministers perhaps being as unhappy as we, for once. Would she care to comment?

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, I think that really is very wide of the question raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Burton.

§ Lord Taylor of Gryfe
My Lords, following the original Question, may I ask the noble Lord whether his attention has been drawn to the article in the Financial Times of yesterday concerning the effect on consumers of the proposed selling-off of the Gas Corporation properties and the fact that consumers will be left unprotected and may be the victims of very substantial price rises? May I ask for his assurance that in privatisation proposals protection will be provided for the consumer interests?

§ Lord Lyell
My Lords, I am afraid that is a little wide of the original Question which was asked by the noble Baroness, Lady Burton of Coventry, but of course everyone is aware of the most interesting articles which, as the noble Lord mentioned, appeared in the Financial Times, and of course the Government will pay careful attention to the points that were raised by the noble Lord.

§ Lord Davies of Leek
My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that some of us believe that any public enterprise that has learned its trade is suddenly confronted with the problem that little pieces of it which give a profit are hived off and we have reached a new philosophy of conservatism, to socialise the losses and privatise the profits?

§ Lord Lyell
My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Davies of Leek, at least might not expect me to give expositions in philosophy of any sort from this position this afternoon. We will pay attention to what the noble Lord has said, but I am afraid I have nothing further to add.

§ Lord Avebury
My Lords, with regard to the answer given by the noble Baroness the Leader of the House, is it not more than simply a procedural question affecting another place if an important Statement of the kind referred to is made in answer to an oral Question? Would not the noble Baroness agree that the decision to make the Statement in this form was taken by a Minister of Her Majesty's Government and therefore it is perfectly proper for a noble Lord to refer to it in this House, and does she not think that, in view of the importance of the subject that was under discussion—the selling-off of large parts of the British National Oil Corporation and the privatisation of the British Gas Corporation's interest in onshore fields—this would have merited a Statement in your Lordships' House, where it could have been questioned?

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, I hope I said enough in answer to the original question asked by the noble Baroness, Lady Burton, to indicate how the situation arose. As the noble Lord, Lord Avebury, will know, the procedures in another place are a matter for another place. I have taken the point raised by both the noble Lord, Lord Avebury, and the noble Baroness, Lady Burton, and by others, and I have indicated that I will draw it to the attention of my honourable friends in another place and do my best to talk over the difficulties with them, to try to ensure that we do not have a similar situation on another occasion. I recognise the difficulty.