HL Deb 12 May 1981 vol 420 cc438-41

2.40 p.m.

Baroness Trumpington

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they are satisfied with the development of the Community Enterprise Programme, and what success they have had in obtaining private sector sponsorship for community projects under the programme.

The Minister of State, Department of Employment (The Earl of Gowrie)

My Lords, the Community Enterprise Programme replaced the Special Temporary Employment Programme on 1st April. I am informed by the Manpower Services Commission, which administers the programme, that potential sponsors of schemes are showing great interest and the commission is well set to double the number of temporary employment opportunities during this financial year. The commission also informs me that although the new programme has been running for only six weeks the signs are that private sector employers do wish to help the long-term unemployed and many inquiries about scheme sponsorship are being received from them.

Baroness Trumpington

My Lords, while thanking my noble friend for his reply, may I ask him what areas of CEP are suitable for private sector sponsorship, and will the funds available be adequate in support?

The Earl of Gowrie

My Lords, I think all of us, on the second part of my noble friend's supplementary, would wish funds to be greater than they are, but the types of scheme sponsored by the private sector employers should fall into two broad categories. First, those in which a public spirited company may sponsor a scheme of community benefit wholly outside its normal commercial activities and which does not seek to involve direct financial gain. An example of this might be a company, or consortium of companies, sponsoring a scheme to clean and create public footpaths along the river banks bordering an industrial estate in which their premises were located. Secondly, those schemes which would allow a limited direct financial gain to the company but where that gain is clearly of secondary importance to the community benefit being provided.

Lord Rochester

My Lords, would the Minister agree that the number of people without a job or opportunity under one of the Manpower Services Commission's programmes has increased proportionately more among those aged between 19 and 24 than in the 16 to 18 age group, that this represents an increase in the incidence of long-term unemployment and that the Community Enterprise Programme is very well suited to cater for young people who are thus adversely affected? Secondly, may we take it from the noble Earl's answer to the noble Baroness, Lady Trumpington, that he agrees that there is a very strong case at least for increasing the resources available to finance an extension of the Community Enterprise Programme?

The Earl of Gowrie

The two parts of that supplementary are clearly linked, my Lords. The Government do not pretend that the Community Enterprise Programme is any solution to the problems of long-term unemployed people, which can be achieved only by a more competitive British economy. Nevertheless, we feel it helps and that it provides recognisable benefits to various communities. The question of resources is, of course, Catch 22: the more we borrow, the higher interest rates are and the longer industrial recovery is postponed.

Lord Hunt

My Lords, while welcoming very warmly the Community Enterprise Programme, may I ask the Minister to give an indication of the extent to which the response to or demand for the programme exceeds the numbers of jobs available, despite the intention to double, and whether that in any way matches the demand of young people to get into this kind of employment?

The Earl of Gowrie

My Lords, it is a little early to measure that at all scientifically, as this particular programme has been going only since 1st April; but of course it is geared primarily at an older age group, falling within the description of the long-term unemployed. The Youth Opportunities Programme is an open-ended programme which offers any young unemployed person between 16 and 19 a place on the scheme.

Lord Balfour of Inchrye

My Lords, may I ask my noble friend to say whether, in connection with this important scheme, the Government have obtained the co-operation and assistance of all the trade unions, individually and collectively, because that is a matter of the greatest importance for the success of the enterprise?

The Earl of Gowrie

I wholly agree with my noble friend, my Lords, and he will be aware that these schemes are funded by the Government and that the Government are answerable for them. Nevertheless, they are operated by the Manpower Services Commission, which is a tripartite body.

Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos

My Lords, may I ask the noble Earl to be a little more specific? Is he aware that the unemployment situation in Wales is particularly bad and that, outside of Northern Ireland, the figures for Wales are now the worst for the whole of the United Kingdom? Is he aware that this kind of scheme would be particularly helpful in the rural areas of Wales? Can he say how the scheme is working in Wales at the present time and whether he is satisfied that we are making progress?

The Earl of Gowrie

As I said, my Lords, I am satisfied with the design and general operability of the schemes and the response to them, though one will need more time before one can register exactly and in detail what the response has been. I am not satisfied that a scheme of this kind could be a solution to the problems of long-term unemployment, whether in Wales or elsewhere.

Baroness Trumpington

My Lords, while congratulating my noble friend on the obvious success of a very young scheme, may I ask him what steps he envisages to obtain more publicity and get the scheme better known, because it is such an excellent plan?

The Earl of Gowrie

My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend for those comments and I am grateful to her for the contribution she has made in publicising the scheme by raising it in your Lordships' House.